This is retarded. The PDD is hardly the most active forum around to begin with. These things fall under proper forum etiquette, and a simple reminder to the poster is all that is needed. There is no point in drafting up a bunch of draconian rules for best practices in posting articles. Thats how we run into drama and create more problems down the line. A list of rules on what is in correct posting format is completely relative. This will only create a system that will require further moderator oversight that isn't needed in the first place.

What would be an acceptable summary post-quote? One line? Two lines? Original thought? Who's the judge? I get enough of this shit in places like the COR and the worst cases balloon into huge rivalries over absolutely nothing. All in the name of keeping "order." What is so wrong with how the PDD has been operating thus far? So we have some new people that are posting a bunch of junk articles no one is interested in. Big whoop-tie-doo. Don't fucking read them. Most of that crap is at the bottom of the forum after a day or two anyway. Eventually these people take the hint no one is interested and stop doing it.

If I find an article interesting, many times I may not have any significant insight to offer other than the article itself. Many times I like to post the article in PDD without any summary or thoughts of my own in hopes somebody else will happen past it and get debate going. Once the debate has started I can collect my thoughts and thats when I jump in on the fun. My contribution was brining the article into the PDD for the attention of people here that may otherwise not see it.

A lot of you older folks need to realize the place you're getting your rocks off. This small corner you've called your home is apart of a larger electronic music site mostly populated by drugged out, partied up, scene whore teenagers and college slackers. If you don't like the audience, pick up your shit and move to your nearest political blog. Or maybe you just enjoy being that big fish in the small pond.

This whole thing is totally unnecessary. Just leave things be and it'll sort itself out. We don't have to go creating solutions to problems that don't exist just because Lira had a choice to either jerk off or create some more forum rules to give himself something to do.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 This is retarded. The PDD is hardly the most active forum around to begin with.

So to hell with things as a consequence? Sorry if I disagree.

quote:

These things fall under proper forum etiquette, and a simple reminder to the poster is all that is needed. There is no point in drafting up a bunch of draconian rules for best practices in posting articles.

How draconian can it be for asking to post a fucking opinion or two on an article starting a new thread?

If that's honestly too draconian for you, perhaps you should heed your own advice you allude to below and "pick up your shit and move" to a place of your own choosing.

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Thats how we run into drama and create more problems down the line.

Can you not see how the reverse of that argument can be equally problematic - i.e. holding no rules and no one responsible for the threads they create?

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A list of rules on what is in correct posting format is completely relative. This will only create a system that will require further moderator oversight that isn't needed in the first place.

Let's keep the ideas simple here. I'm personally not asking by any stretch of your strange imagination for a "draconian" rule format. The ones we currently have are more than fair as they are. However it's become clear that there are those certain individuals who refuse to post links and give any worthwhile commentary to their articles and stories posted. If we are to accept this particular forum to be a Political Discussion/Debate forum, then is it really too much to ask of those "drugged out, partied up, scene whore teenagers and college slackers" to post a few thoughts of their own to actually, uhhh, stir a discussion and/or debate?

Perhaps so at times, but perhaps we can all learn something if they would at least TRY.

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I get enough of this shit in places like the COR and the worst cases balloon into huge rivalries over absolutely nothing. All in the name of keeping "order."

Josh, this completely counters your argument because you know God damn well why this happens in COR is NOT because of rules, but because of very little to no actual rules at all. And whatever rules there are they are not made clear for anyone as they are clear here with the "7 simple rules" thread, and perhaps a rule that might come out of this thread.

quote:

What is so wrong with how the PDD has been operating thus far? So we have some new people that are posting a bunch of junk articles no one is interested in. Big whoop-tie-doo. Don't fucking read them. Most of that crap is at the bottom of the forum after a day or two anyway. Eventually these people take the hint no one is interested and stop doing it.

Sorry, but I've seen enough trolls in forums to know that your scenario often does not pan out. Rather, they post, and they post, and they post, and they post, ad fucking nauseum, adding very little to nothing to any discussion and/or debate. Personally I don't want that to be the case here.

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If I find an article interesting, many times I may not have any significant insight to offer other than the article itself. Many times I like to post the article in PDD without any summary or thoughts of my own in hopes somebody else will happen past it and get debate going. Once the debate has started I can collect my thoughts and thats when I jump in on the fun. My contribution was brining the article into the PDD for the attention of people here that may otherwise not see it.

I agree to this format on occasion. But perhaps some initial thoughts could be posted as well as a disclaimer that the thread starter hasn't wrapped his brain around it entirely just yet to give a complete opinion wouldn't hurt anyone, would it?

quote:

A lot of you older folks need to realize the place you're getting your rocks off. This small corner you've called your home is apart of a larger electronic music site mostly populated by drugged out, partied up, scene whore teenagers and college slackers. If you don't like the audience, pick up your shit and move to your nearest political blog. Or maybe you just enjoy being that big fish in the small pond.

Or maybe I still enjoy a good discussion and debate on current issues that are important to me, and despite many in the forum being drugged out teenagers as you describe, I tend not to find as many derelicts in this forum, even among those whom I often strongly disagree with.

I don't think it's ever too much to ask anyone to use a little fucking brain power, no matter what altered or sober state of mind one is in. Sorry if I would like the standard of this forum to be a little different than the rest, but for the most part that's exactly what it has been over the years - a different standard. It's not that much to ask, Josh.

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This whole thing is totally unnecessary. Just leave things be and it'll sort itself out. We don't have to go creating solutions to problems that don't exist just because Lira had a choice to either jerk off or create some more forum rules to give himself something to do.

You really should give Lira a bit more credit than that, Josh, as well as at least try to respect old fart such as myself who want this forum to be a wee bit different than the COR. Maybe it is a wish in vain, but by and large I think you'd agree this forum does have a bit of a different standard. I think that's only helped the level of debate and discussion, not hurt it.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 So to hell with things as a consequence? Sorry if I disagree. How draconian can it be for asking to post a fucking opinion or two on an article starting a new thread? If that's honestly too draconian for you, perhaps you should heed your own advice you allude to below and "pick up your shit and move" to a place of your own choosing.

Its not too much to ask. I'm all for encouraging people to offer their own insight to the content they post. Asking too much would be to require it and punish offenders.

quote:

Can you not see how the reverse of that argument can be equally problematic - i.e. holding no rules and no one responsible for the threads they create?

Yes the reverse would be problematic, lets be thankful this isn't a totally lawless land. We have two good moderators assigned to PDD that do a good enough job of keeping order. They mostly get rid of obvious degenerates and respond to requests of regular PDD members. So if there is somebody not following the current rules as they stand, you can let the mods know and they'll be sure to warn that person. That should be enough to stop any abuse.

quote:

Let's keep the ideas simple here. I'm personally not asking by any stretch of your strange imagination for a "draconian" rule format. The ones we currently have are more than fair as they are. However it's become clear that there are those certain individuals who refuse to post links and give any worthwhile commentary to their articles and stories posted. If we are to accept this particular forum to be a Political Discussion/Debate forum, then is it really too much to ask of those "drugged out, partied up, scene whore teenagers and college slackers" to post a few thoughts of their own to actually, uhhh, stir a discussion and/or debate? Perhaps so at times, but perhaps we can all learn something if they would at least TRY.

I don't think there has been enough abuse of the fact to warrant action mandating certain posting format. Creating such a mandate only causes unnecessary overhead that will need to be regulated. So we get a few threads every once in a while from some kid going quote happy. I don't see how that is enough to cause all this fuss. Just ignore those threads and move on.

quote:

Josh, this completely counters your argument because you know God damn well why this happens in COR is NOT because of rules, but because of very little to no actual rules at all. And whatever rules there are they are not made clear for anyone as they are clear here with the "7 simple rules" thread, and perhaps a rule that might come out of this thread.

There are plenty of rules for the COR, many of them unwritten, but known by all. The problem with the COR is the type of people that post there. This forum in particular carries a certain air of maturity so we don't have that sort of problem for fear of looking stupid. I've always wanted PDD to be more active, and many people do browse the threads here but many refrain from posting because some of the regulars jump on ignorance like white on rice. (I'm looking at you pkcRAISTLIN.) Its a little disconcerting for people when you respond to their one paragraph with 3 pages and 10 sources all quoted, demanding clarification.

It might be the age gap, I don't know, but nobody reads the "7 Simple Rules" thread, Opus. I didn't even know it existed until today. Its power over what happens here is nil to none. Threads like that are more like reference for after you've already been banned. Maybe you read them, maybe other people do, but certainly not the people that should.

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Sorry, but I've seen enough trolls in forums to know that your scenario often does not pan out. Rather, they post, and they post, and they post, and they post, ad fucking nauseum, adding very little to nothing to any discussion and/or debate. Personally I don't want that to be the case here. I agree to this format on occasion. But perhaps some initial thoughts could be posted as well as a disclaimer that the thread starter hasn't wrapped his brain around it entirely just yet to give a complete opinion wouldn't hurt anyone, would it?

This forum isn't active enough for trolls to become a major problem. Theres been nothing lately to suggest it will except for a few people posting a bunch of quoted articles. Its not like that hasn't happened in the past, its not an indicator of future abuse, and it will go away eventually just like all the other times. People will tell the poster thats not the expected etiquette and he will stop. If it becomes a huge problem the mods can be informed and they can handle it.

Some initial thoughts and/or a disclaimer would be fine, but I don't think creating a rule set requiring it is going to help anything. You admit that format is occasionally acceptable (even by your standards) but if rules like this are created then that format will forever be outlawed. You can't say you've never posted only an article before due to lack of time or whathaveyou. Well under these rules you'd never be able to do that, ever. If it were permitted once in a while, who makes that distinction? This is where we get into the gray area that causes more problems then its worth. Maybe the mods would recognize you as an active forum member and cut you some slack but that isn't fair to someone else the mods wouldn't recognize.

quote:

You really should give Lira a bit more credit than that, Josh, as well as at least try to respect old fart such as myself who want this forum to be a wee bit different than the COR. Maybe it is a wish in vain, but by and large I think you'd agree this forum does have a bit of a different standard. I think that's only helped the level of debate and discussion, not hurt it.

Don't make the mistake that I'd prefer this place to be like the COR. I just think its fine the way it is and making these changes are going to do more harm than good. The PDD certainly does hold to a different standard than the rest, and thats good and I think thats enough to maintain order. Creating additional rules and mandates does nothing but stifle free debate and independent thinking. You might say the whole point is a lack of independent thinking, but what about the threads that do catch on? A thread with nothing but an article quote and the debate is started through other people posting in it. That wouldn't be possible under this system.

Here are a few example threads that may never have happened if this system were in place: 1, 2,3,4

Those are all from the classic threads sticky at the top of the forum. They offer nothing but an article and maybe a sentence or two, if that. Who decides if thats enough or not? If this system were in place at the time of their posting perhaps a moderator world have determined them unfit and locked them before they caught on.

This is all neither here nor there anyway because in order for this to work the mods would have to always be on the look out. I'm not hating on Lira, I just enjoy giving them a hard time. Can we really expect him and Neo to always be in here, checking new threads, seeing if they abide by the rules, and locking out the ones that don't? Maybe at first, but most likely they'll do it less and less and finally only on request, which is the way it is now! Then we're fucking back to where we started in the first place. Its not going to work.

Lira,

I apologize if you got things out of context. In that case if you have people creating those type of threads, as the example you provided me with, just PM and notify that person personally. Thats it! you dont have to create a poll for this man. I mean today you will ask someone to provide with a thesis, whats next? and essay?

To MisterOpus1,

I mean I certainly havent engage in any debate in here because Ive mentioned some people here just dont show intelligence, and i dont mean to offend anyone. That is why Im not active in this board. Unlike other boards, Im active because some people actually know what they talk about, dont come up with conspiracies from some nutcase, or promote any propaganda to benefit a certain group. These people actually are in another level, in the level of self analyzing information, and view everything from a historical point of view. Again I dont mean to denigrate anyone here and make anyone feel inferior. As I have browsed through some post there are certainly SOME smart individuals. I mean man if you want to debate me, PM me and i'll give you the board that im actively involved and we can go at it there. I mean ill bet you $100 that you wouldnt even get pass the introduction page. If you dont understand history, and all you can do is go to WIKI or the Washingpost or Cnn, or quote some phony guy, dont even bother, i dont want you to get embarrassed.

I dont want to hijack the thread but this us ubsurb whats going on with this poll. Lira why dont you just create a NewsFeed section instead?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

I think the thesis rules clearly wins by a strong majority..

quote:

I mean I certainly havent engage in any debate in here because Ive mentioned some people here just dont show intelligence, and i dont mean to offend anyone. That is why Im not active in this board. Unlike other boards, Im active because some people actually know what they talk about, dont come up with conspiracies from some nutcase, or promote any propaganda to benefit a certain group. These people actually are in another level, in the level of self analyzing information, and view everything from a historical point of view. Again I dont mean to denigrate anyone here and make anyone feel inferior. As I have browsed through some post there are certainly SOME smart individuals. I mean man if you want to debate me, PM me and i'll give you the board that im actively involved and we can go at it there. I mean ill bet you $100 that you wouldnt even get pass the introduction page. If you dont understand history, and all you can do is go to WIKI or the Washingpost or Cnn, or quote some phony guy, dont even bother, i dont want you to get embarrassed. I dont want to hijack the thread but this us ubsurb whats going on with this poll. Lira why dont you just create a NewsFeed section instead?

You refuse to support your arguments, you use anecdotal stories, and run away from threads where you clearly got your ass handed to you in debate. If you can't debate here, then you should stfu and go to whatever shithole boards you go to since we're not holy enough to oppose your FAR RIGHT assumptions..

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Its not too much to ask. I'm all for encouraging people to offer their own insight to the content they post. Asking too much would be to require it and punish offenders.

Well I dunno about "punishing" really. Those 7 simple rules aren't really enforced unless someone calls another out on them for breaking them, which doesn't always happen really.

quote:

Yes the reverse would be problematic, lets be thankful this isn't a totally lawless land. We have two good moderators assigned to PDD that do a good enough job of keeping order. They mostly get rid of obvious degenerates and respond to requests of regular PDD members. So if there is somebody not following the current rules as they stand, you can let the mods know and they'll be sure to warn that person. That should be enough to stop any abuse. I don't think there has been enough abuse of the fact to warrant action mandating certain posting format. Creating such a mandate only causes unnecessary overhead that will need to be regulated. So we get a few threads every once in a while from some kid going quote happy. I don't see how that is enough to cause all this fuss. Just ignore those threads and move on. There are plenty of rules for the COR, many of them unwritten, but known by all. The problem with the COR is the type of people that post there. This forum in particular carries a certain air of maturity so we don't have that sort of problem for fear of looking stupid. I've always wanted PDD to be more active, and many people do browse the threads here but many refrain from posting because some of the regulars jump on ignorance like white on rice. (I'm looking at you pkcRAISTLIN.) Its a little disconcerting for people when you respond to their one paragraph with 3 pages and 10 sources all quoted, demanding clarification.

You make some valid points.

quote:

It might be the age gap, I don't know, but nobody reads the "7 Simple Rules" thread, Opus. I didn't even know it existed until today. Its power over what happens here is nil to none. Threads like that are more like reference for after you've already been banned. Maybe you read them, maybe other people do, but certainly not the people that should.

Perhaps not, but it is a sticky thread at the top for a reason. More often than not I'll refer those individuals to that thread who're overstepping those rules.

quote:

This forum isn't active enough for trolls to become a major problem. Theres been nothing lately to suggest it will except for a few people posting a bunch of quoted articles. Its not like that hasn't happened in the past, its not an indicator of future abuse, and it will go away eventually just like all the other times. People will tell the poster thats not the expected etiquette and he will stop. If it becomes a huge problem the mods can be informed and they can handle it. Some initial thoughts and/or a disclaimer would be fine, but I don't think creating a rule set requiring it is going to help anything. You admit that format is occasionally acceptable (even by your standards) but if rules like this are created then that format will forever be outlawed. You can't say you've never posted only an article before due to lack of time or whathaveyou. Well under these rules you'd never be able to do that, ever. If it were permitted once in a while, who makes that distinction? This is where we get into the gray area that causes more problems then its worth. Maybe the mods would recognize you as an active forum member and cut you some slack but that isn't fair to someone else the mods wouldn't recognize.

Perhaps you're right.

quote:

Don't make the mistake that I'd prefer this place to be like the COR. I just think its fine the way it is and making these changes are going to do more harm than good. The PDD certainly does hold to a different standard than the rest, and thats good and I think thats enough to maintain order. Creating additional rules and mandates does nothing but stifle free debate and independent thinking. You might say the whole point is a lack of independent thinking, but what about the threads that do catch on? A thread with nothing but an article quote and the debate is started through other people posting in it. That wouldn't be possible under this system. Here are a few example threads that may never have happened if this system were in place: 1, 2,3,4 Those are all from the classic threads sticky at the top of the forum. They offer nothing but an article and maybe a sentence or two, if that. Who decides if thats enough or not? If this system were in place at the time of their posting perhaps a moderator world have determined them unfit and locked them before they caught on. This is all neither here nor there anyway because in order for this to work the mods would have to always be on the look out. I'm not hating on Lira, I just enjoy giving them a hard time. Can we really expect him and Neo to always be in here, checking new threads, seeing if they abide by the rules, and locking out the ones that don't? Maybe at first, but most likely they'll do it less and less and finally only on request, which is the way it is now! Then we're fucking back to where we started in the first place. Its not going to work.

But then again, I think the opposite argument could be made that if that rule is in place then all the Mods would have to do is simply refer to that rule as needed. I advocate that because it helps with consistency and neutrality for the mods rather than have to spend time and deal with those individuals on a case by case basis every stinkin' time it occurs.

Regardless, because of the points you brought up I'm willing to hold off on my advocacy for an additional rule for now and see how that pans out. Nothing wrong with a bit more patience on my part to see how things hold up a while longer.

So sure, I'll play along and see what happens for now. Good enough?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover To MisterOpus1, I mean I certainly havent engage in any debate in here because Ive mentioned some people here just dont show intelligence, and i dont mean to offend anyone.

Telling people that they don't show intelligence will certainly offend them, regardless of how silly and ironic they may think that is for you to say it. Simply calling someone dumb and then caveat your statement with "hey, no offense!", doesn't really cut the mustard.

quote:

That is why Im not active in this board.

I'll sleep better understanding your rationale.

quote:

Unlike other boards, Im active because some people actually know what they talk about, dont come up with conspiracies from some nutcase, or promote any propaganda to benefit a certain group. These people actually are in another level, in the level of self analyzing information, and view everything from a historical point of view. Again I dont mean to denigrate anyone here and make anyone feel inferior.

Of course not. Your full display of intelligence and superior knowledge has easily excused you from making such denigrations on poor us.

quote:

As I have browsed through some post there are certainly SOME smart individuals. I mean man if you want to debate me, PM me and i'll give you the board that im actively involved and we can go at it there. I mean ill bet you $100 that you wouldnt even get pass the introduction page.

Well I sure hope that one day you'll give us all a wonderful treat of showing us your mad skills of debating on other boards right here in our humble abode. Just out of curiosity, would you be willing to post a few of those websites here so we could lurk and observe you from afar?

quote:

If you dont understand history, and all you can do is go to WIKI or the Washingpost or Cnn, or quote some phony guy, dont even bother, i dont want you to get embarrassed.

Well thank you kindly for thinking of me. I almost felt a little warmth in my heart for you, if not for a very brief flashing moment in time.

quote:

I dont want to hijack the thread but this us ubsurb whats going on with this poll. Lira why dont you just create a NewsFeed section instead?

And miss out on hoping you'd merely show us your ninja debating moves here instead? I just wouldn't have it. No sir.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 This is retarded. The PDD is hardly the most active forum around to begin with. These things fall under proper forum etiquette, and a simple reminder to the poster is all that is needed. There is no point in drafting up a bunch of draconian rules for best practices in posting articles. Thats how we run into drama and create more problems down the line. A list of rules on what is in correct posting format is completely relative. This will only create a system that will require further moderator oversight that isn't needed in the first place.

I agree 100%.

What we're witnessing first hand is in itself an example of the human need to silence dissent through drafting legislation.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover Lira, I apologize if you got things out of context. In that case if you have people creating those type of threads, as the example you provided me with, just PM and notify that person personally. Thats it! you dont have to create a poll for this man. I mean today you will ask someone to provide with a thesis, whats next? and essay? To MisterOpus1, I mean I certainly havent engage in any debate in here because Ive mentioned some people here just dont show intelligence, and i dont mean to offend anyone. That is why Im not active in this board. Unlike other boards, Im active because some people actually know what they talk about, dont come up with conspiracies from some nutcase, or promote any propaganda to benefit a certain group. These people actually are in another level, in the level of self analyzing information, and view everything from a historical point of view. Again I dont mean to denigrate anyone here and make anyone feel inferior. As I have browsed through some post there are certainly SOME smart individuals. I mean man if you want to debate me, PM me and i'll give you the board that im actively involved and we can go at it there. I mean ill bet you $100 that you wouldnt even get pass the introduction page. If you dont understand history, and all you can do is go to WIKI or the Washingpost or Cnn, or quote some phony guy, dont even bother, i dont want you to get embarrassed. I dont want to hijack the thread but this us ubsurb whats going on with this poll. Lira why dont you just create a NewsFeed section instead?

You don't even seem like you have a full grasp on the English language but yet you have the audacity to denigrate us by saying that we're not intelligent? That's some nerve you have there, buddy.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Telling people that they don't show intelligence will certainly offend them, regardless of how silly and ironic they may think that is for you to say it.

Please don't make me laugh like that again, Opus. I just got snot on my keyboard thanks to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X You don't even seem like you have a full grasp on the English language but yet you have the audacity to denigrate us by saying that we're not intelligent? That's some nerve you have there, buddy.

Its like they say.... intelligence dosent speak a certain language. Hell ill tell you English is my second language

Im not trying to say Im smarter here than all of you. Only because I stated that there arent some intelligent people dosent necessarily mean im putting myself on the top. But come on this isnt really a political thread forum, its more like a conspiracy section mixed with bashing at other political parties. I mean hey Im no against all that, I was into that like in the 9th grade and thank god i grew over that when I realized that was all bs

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.