Originally posted by RJT
I don't disagree, but the fundamental flaw in an argument like that when it comes to something like pain is that you're projecting human ideas and sensory experiences on a definitively non-human being. Just because you can anthropomorphize the experience of a fish, doesn't mean that the actual experience of the fish is similar to what we experience as pain.
I'm not projecting the human feeling of pain on a fish. Even with it's limited ability, the experience of dying is contrary to what the creature has been programmed for : to survive. The struggle for survival may be loosely defined as pain, because atleast in other higher forms of life and in humans, the process of dying, if experienced consciously, is characterized by pain.
Such things are very hard to define objectively I guess.
Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.
Oct-18-2007 22:21
jupiterone
housin' guide
Registered: Dec 2004
Location: los angeles
I used to be such an asshole towards fish back in my days as a youngin'.
Whenever I caught something really small and we were on a boat, I'd take the paddle throw the fish up and hit a homerun with it . Wow, I was an outright asshole.
Oct-18-2007 23:01
Rose
hmmm
Registered: May 2007
Location: -
Yes.
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Oct-19-2007 02:07
Project-K
JD ėtictsile
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Laval, Quebec
It doesn't seem to make much sense from an evolutionary standpoint that an animal like a fish couldn't feel pain - in that case they should've all died millions of years ago. So based on that logic alone, I'm inclined to say yes. Besides, the apparent absence of a specific part of the brain isn't much grounds to make that claim considering we have no way to determine how similar their brains are to ours in function.
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Oct-19-2007 02:07
Boomer187
Spicy Hotdog
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by eROs.au
Haha, not eating meat because animals feel pain? I haven't heard that one before
for real.
lets see if you guys are stuck in remote Mongolia with no food and can only buy a goat to eat whether you would strike a rock upon its skull.
my buddy had to.
Oct-19-2007 02:15
Frenchie
life in technocolor
Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
quote:
Originally posted by jupiterone
I used to be such an asshole towards fish back in my days as a youngin'.
Whenever I caught something really small and we were on a boat, I'd take the paddle throw the fish up and hit a homerun with it . Wow, I was an outright asshole.
Was? lol jk
I did it too, don't worry.
Oct-19-2007 02:16
RJT
last minute disco
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
Well rather than sit here and try to argue a point it appears many people far more qualified than myself (or any of you) have already made for me, I'll just quietly withdraw from this thread, only checking in from time to time for a bit of a laugh.
a fish is a vertebrae with a central nervous system hence their phylum classification chordata (spinal chord).
now i would assume that they would feel pain as they do have nerves. which would let htem know "hey there is a hook in my mouth" gtfo.
pain is an adaptation that allows animals to avoid harm and manage in their respective environments.
is their sensory system as complex as that of a mammal? definatley not.
Oct-19-2007 03:24
Dervish
Your opinion matters.
Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by Omega_M
I'm not projecting the human feeling of pain on a fish. Even with it's limited ability, the experience of dying is contrary to what the creature has been programmed for : to survive. The struggle for survival may be loosely defined as pain, because atleast in other higher forms of life and in humans, the process of dying, if experienced consciously, is characterized by pain.
Such things are very hard to define objectively I guess.
I really want the marble to get to the end of the course but I can't. I'm trying (via my programing) to get it to happen but it won't work. In the same way lop a limb off an animal that doesn't feel pain and it just goes "fuck that just made moving harder".
But I suppose also if you lop someones arm off while they are asleep, waking up without an arm is traumatic even though you don't feel pain.
Otherwise the sea bass I just had tasted ace.
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