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Originally posted by julien2 I sometimes wonder whether it is a good thing that these threads resurface from time to time or if its just a waste of time 1- Please, please stop saying stupid things like ''genre defining is unecessary, good music is good music.'' Yes good music is good music. But genre defining is very important. It is not intelligent at all to belive that music can be categorized vaguely. If we could do that, every piece could fit in the category ''polysymphonic sound''. Rock, classical music, blues, jazz, electronic are as important to define as IDM, neo-trance, techhouse, minimal, electro, electroclash etc etc etc. Why ? Because they are all very different, born in different places, inspired by different musicians, have different tasks, aspirations, purposes, the scenes are different. Also, genres help to define, structure, identify and unite different groups or scenes. No, Happy Hardcore and Hip Hop are not the same, even though they are both parts of EDM. The crowd is not the same, the scene is not the same, the goal is not the same Same thing for neo-trance vs epic-uplifting-anthemic-trance. Thank you. 2- Neo-trance does exist. It really does. Or maybey should we say it existed ? However, one thing that is clear is that the genre is struggling...2 years ago, approximately, many people were tired with the jesus pose build up breakdown hands in the air trance. Thats why neo-trance emerged. The first problem arised when came the time to name the genre. I heard them all: nu-trance, melodic techno, neo-trance....The latter is the one who stayed. The fact is that its not really new trance (nu/neo), it is rather a renaissance of the old german 90s trance. But naming something Renaissance trance is not very catchy, nor original. Neo-trance seemed the best way to go But, in this very fast and globalized world, if something doesnt stick right away, it probably wont. The genre never got any unity, any common direction. Labels (Border Community, Connaisseur, Kompakt, to name a few well-known) were not comitted, or did not care. The idea was good, but it was not developed correctly. Some (including myself) believed in it, and still believe in it. the fact that labels did not care is because they did not to care, having commercial success right away with catchy songs (Domino by Oxia was the perfect example). Now it is struggling more then ever, it needs direction and a goal, and it might fade away soon... /thread /keywords: neo trance nu trance now stop starting new threads and read this one

[Applause]

It is interesting that psytrance experienced a parallel trend back in about 2003 or so... "neo full-on" as it was called was a short-lived fad centred around the fusion of full-on with deeper more progressive techniques. Of course, the result was, by and large, pepped up progressive or really boring full-on. It soon faded back into the regular stream of stuff, its marketing potential and creative scope exhausted.

From this thread in December 2006:

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Originally posted by Cobalt Listen to Sven Vath's Mysteryland set from this August. That will give you a good sense of how the word is being applied. Some artists in on the act are: Mathew Jonson Gabriel Ananda Gregor Tresher Deetron Tom Pooks Extrawelt Some labels where so-called "neotrance" has recently appeared: Kompakt Extra Datapunk Cocoon Great Stuff Recordings Wagon Repair Treibstoff Some examples are: Tom Pooks - Pablo Assan's Gregor Tresher - The Now People Deetron - Isotope Tigerskin - Neontrance Gabriel Ananda & Cio D'or - Lauschgoldengel Extrawelt - Titelheld Mathew Jonson - Marionette came a bit before the neotrance "wave", as did Hawtin's DE9 stuff (such as The Tunnel), but both could also be included as examples.

Cobblestone Jazz - W could definitely be added to the list.

I still think Tom Pooks - Pablo Assan's is the most neotrancy track to date. The biggest thing preventing neotrance from actually being trance, in my opinion, is the BPM. One of the defining features of trance is its speed. 130bpm trance doesn't really sound like trance, yet most neotrance is hovering down there.

Good post, julien2.

mixed neo trance last week didnt even know how it was called.

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Originally posted by julien2 However, one thing that is clear is that the genre is struggling...2 years ago, approximately, many people were tired with the jesus pose build up breakdown hands in the air trance. Thats why neo-trance emerged.

the problem i have, is there are loads of possible routes for trance to take to avoid the aforementioned cliches, and what is classed as neo-trance doesn't seem to be an evolution of trance at all.. but rather one of minimal/tech house with added melody

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The biggest thing preventing neotrance from actually being trance, in my opinion, is the BPM. One of the defining features of trance is its speed. 130bpm trance doesn't really sound like trance, yet most neotrance is hovering down there.

i'd agree with that. trance generally tends to have tougher, more driving kickdrums & a more prominent bassline. the first vid posted by paul andrews on the previous page had NO sounds in it that i'd associate with trance.. the second one has a few trancey sounding synths it though, as well as a tougher kick. i haven't heard many other so-called neo-trance tunes in that vein though...

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Originally posted by isoterra the problem i have, is there are loads of possible routes for trance to take to avoid the aforementioned cliches, and what is classed as neo-trance doesn't seem to be an evolution of trance at all.. but rather one of minimal/tech house with added melody

That's true. I don't perceive 'neo-trance' as a conscious counteraction to the overblown epic trance, more like some trend in techno that was maybe a part of the ubiquitous 90s revival. Seems to me that people who were a fans of the older trance sound were responsible for coining the term with hope the good old days may come back in some form.

It's wishful thinking that might probably be never completely fulfilled.

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Originally posted by isoterra the problem i have, is there are loads of possible routes for trance to take to avoid the aforementioned cliches, and what is classed as neo-trance doesn't seem to be an evolution of trance at all.. but rather one of minimal/tech house with added melody

That's because the current version of trance is shit and not worth messing with it at all. To come up with good music, i'd think it's better to take the base from tech house, and then add the trancy elements on top of it. The other reason is that the people experimenting with neotrance all come from the tech house/techno/"minimal" side of things, so it's no surprise they try making tracks that will fit with the usual sort of stuff they spin on their sets.

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i'd agree with that. trance generally tends to have tougher, more driving kickdrums & a more prominent bassline. the first vid posted by paul andrews on the previous page had NO sounds in it that i'd associate with trance.. the second one has a few trancey sounding synths it though, as well as a tougher kick. i haven't heard many other so-called neo-trance tunes in that vein though...

I know this is highly subjective, but I really can't understand how you don't associate the first vid with trance, it screams "HEY THIS IS TRANCE" to me. The entire track is arpeggio melodies played on classic synths, layered on top of each other. Plus hypnotic sci-fi'ish sound effects. It sounds like a combination between what M.I.K.E. would come up with 5 years ago, and what Cosmic Baby would come up with 15 years ago. Maybe the BPM is a bit slower, but that's it.

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Originally posted by noikeee That's because the current version of trance is shit and not worth messing with it at all. To come up with good music, i'd think it's better to take the base from tech house, and then add the trancy elements on top of it.

subjective again. i personally can't stand the 'sounds' (kicks/bass/perc/general synths etc etc) that tech house is normally made out of and much prefer the kinds you get in trance, irrespective of any 'musical' factors (like structure/melodies or whatever). and to say it's shit is reason enough to want it to evolve, surely?

i'd prefer to see trance made with the same instrumental buildup as it is today, only with less emphasis on big chord changes & breakdown/buildup, and more emphasis on hypnotic/layered evolving melodies. i'm surprised there aren't many who've tried it (without going deep & proggy)

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The other reason is that the people experimenting with neotrance all come from the tech house/techno/"minimal" side of things, so it's no surprise they try making tracks that will fit with the usual sort of stuff they spin on their sets.

well yeah, obviously. my qualm with why those guys chose a trance-related name in the first place

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I know this is highly subjective, but I really can't understand how you don't associate the first vid with trance, it screams "HEY THIS IS TRANCE" to me. The entire track is arpeggio melodies played on classic synths, layered on top of each other. Plus hypnotic sci-fi'ish sound effects. It sounds like a combination between what M.I.K.E. would come up with 5 years ago, and what Cosmic Baby would come up with 15 years ago. Maybe the BPM is a bit slower, but that's it.

my reasons for disassociating it with trance are less to do with the melodies themselves (which could be transcribed to trance pretty easily) than the instruments it uses, which make it sound more like some kind of 80s electro/synthpop/electronica* than trance to me


*(take that attempt at pigeonholing with a fistful of salt)

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Originally posted by isoterra the problem i have, is there are loads of possible routes for trance to take to avoid the aforementioned cliches, and what is classed as neo-trance doesn't seem to be an evolution of trance at all.. but rather one of minimal/tech house with added melody

that's exactly how i was defining the genre before i knew it was neo trance.

I'm tired of music historic and genre naming. So many song can't enter any genre classification, they weren't produce with the idea to be analyze, classify into a genre in which they won't even fit anyway. Naming your track with your own word will always end up being better then to categorize them into an already way to vast sub genre. Many track I came across is so unique that it merit to get is own sub genre. Genre classification just cut off the thinking part were you really have to define the song as a whole and express how you truly feel about it with no generic 1 word subgenre classification that doesn't mean shit.

To me the 2 vid are more retro than neo trance.

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Last edited by HaeD on Oct-24-2007 at 17:44

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Originally posted by Algenis Who cares about neo trance, who cares about definitions, its all about good music.

so true

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Originally posted by isoterra subjective again. i personally can't stand the 'sounds' (kicks/bass/perc/general synths etc etc) that tech house is normally made out of and much prefer the kinds you get in trance, irrespective of any 'musical' factors (like structure/melodies or whatever). and to say it's shit is reason enough to want it to evolve, surely?

I know you have a different taste in music and respect that, I'm just presenting my point of view which i believe to be shared by these guys who make "neotrance". IMO the current trance is completely uninteresting and pointless to mess around with. Fluffy, anthemic, dumbed down, soul-less, bleh. It can evolve, but why mess with it if we're not interested at all in it, surely it's better to leave it alone for others to try and evolve it?

I believe the mindset of neotrance is the following: the last 10 years in trance have been a mistake, lets forget them and try to pick up from when trance was still good. And while we're at it, let's try mixing it with some elements from the genres that came up meanwhile in these 10 years, that we like. It's kinda a retro-revival thing with a hint of experimental-ness.

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thats what i said in my post one page before