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Originally posted by steven-neil OK..The difference is in the Uk is that if you violate a Health and Safety code you will be fired immediately without warning with no union to back you up...We find our own work and dont need or want a Union to do it for us..We get cash awards for being health and safety conscious..The government reward major contractors with big cash bonuses dependant on Health and Safety standards... In the UK we have to validate our trades before stepping foot onto a building site..We have to prove we can do the work to a safe and high standard..Each and every one of us has to be insured for public liability and we have to pass a construction industry certificate...Before each job we have to do a safety induction course and pass a basic first aid course...

i guess giving major contracts to contractors with mob-ties doesn't do much for safety.

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Originally posted by steven-neil + we've been building stuff for 2000 years and we're better....

haha....well americans are an aggregation of all people who have been building stuff for thousands of years.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 Unions are a fossil the manufacturing age when employers simply disregarded the few worker protection laws that existed. Today, there is a huge body of worker protection laws, so the concern that an employer is going to deny rights to a worker just aren't as great. There are many avenues for workers to seek redress for abuses.

Obviously things aren't as bad as they were, but there are PLENTY of situations where laws aren't being enforced. Workers being treated unfairly is not a relic of the past, just talk to someone who works for Wal-Mart or Fed Ex.

And as to a previous comment... I'm quite sure that the reason most people are in a union isn't because they want to sit around and get paid for it. There are lazy people everywhere, union or not, so to characterize a union workers as complacent (or for that matter, as hard working patriotic americans) is just a dumb generalization. I've met plenty of well paid professionals who don't earn their keep by a long shot, and the free market system doesn't necessarily weed them out...

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iamcharlie

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Originally posted by steven-neil + we've been building stuff for 2000 years and we're better....

why does it always have to turn into a UK vs USA issue with you? if your statement is true your work ethics sure don't reflect this......I love ya to death dude and you can lay down some tile but you're far better at drinking beer and shark fishing lol.

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Originally posted by zachias31 Obviously things aren't as bad as they were, but there are PLENTY of situations where laws aren't being enforced. Workers being treated unfairly is not a relic of the past, just talk to someone who works for Wal-Mart or Fed Ex. And as to a previous comment... I'm quite sure that the reason most people are in a union isn't because they want to sit around and get paid for it. There are lazy people everywhere, union or not, so to characterize a union workers as complacent (or for that matter, as hard working patriotic americans) is just a dumb generalization. I've met plenty of well paid professionals who don't earn their keep by a long shot, and the free market system doesn't necessarily weed them out...

Your wal mart and fed ex comment is certainly valid, but i think forcing employers to educate employees about their rights is probably a better option. Furthermore, the government should take a more significant role by enforcing laws more forcefully. Unions are not the most efficient solution to these problems anymore. The plight of the common worker is a problem for all of society not only the workers. That is why the government is best suited to protect those rights. Unions by definition only protect the interest/rights of the workers, and they fail to consider the collateral effect that their advocacy has on external stakeholders.

talk to any union member and they will tell you the most significant benefit is the difficulty of being fired. whether you think so or not, that leads to complacency. but you are absolutely correct that there are lazy people in every industry. But for some reason people have this idea that union workers(in the construction industry) "work hard" because they may have to lift heavy objects (or something similar). Working hard is not just lifting objects, and the simple fact that someone works doesn't make it hard. Hard work is putting everything you have into doing a good job; regardless of the job you may have. You can't lump union member in that category just because he operates a crane or something like that. Someone working a double shift at McDonalds dealing with irate customers all day while doing it with a smile is working much harder than most union workers on any given day. That McDonalds worker knows he could get fired any day, something a union worker has the luxury of not dealing with.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Dec-16-2007 at 05:56

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Originally posted by vtec junkie why does it always have to turn into a UK vs USA issue with you? if your statement is true your work ethics sure don't reflect this......I love ya to death dude and you can lay down some tile but you're far better at drinking beer and shark fishing lol.

The reason is simple because I'm an Englishman living in America and its the only valid comparrison I can make..I gotta agree with you about tiling though..Tiling is a finishing trade and the majority of health and safety rules don't apply..We just throw on the "Wham gear" and tile..

As for my work ethic you're right..When I'm working on my own places my attention span is very short because I aint getting paid..Normally it's in my own interest to finish a job in the least amount of time but we were building a house in FL FFS..Beaches,,sharks,,WMC,,bars and lap dances got the better of me...

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Sunnysideup Presents 16 Bit Lolitas @ Underbar Boston 04/23
Sunnysideup Presents Nic Fanciulli @ Studio B Brooklyn 06/20
Sunnysideup Presents Rhode Kill 18/19/20 July
website-myspace-[email protected]

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Originally posted by zachias31 i guess you've never seen the repeated studies that have shown NAPS increase productivity and loyalty. many offices are installing corporate naprooms because it's proven to get better work out of employees. unions arent asking for that much, but just protecting workers from draconian definitions of "productivity" that equate a monkey in constant motion with a dedicated and fully functioning employee.

I heard about that but I don't think it will work out. At least not at my job. There are always those select few that will take advantage and ruin it for everyone else.

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Electronic Night Life
<3

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Originally posted by steven-neil The reason is simple because I'm an Englishman living in America and its the only valid comparrison I can make..I gotta agree with you about tiling though..Tiling is a finishing trade and the majority of health and safety rules don't apply..We just throw on the "Wham gear" and tile.. As for my work ethic you're right..When I'm working on my own places my attention span is very short because I aint getting paid..Normally it's in my own interest to finish a job in the least amount of time but we were building a house in FL FFS..Beaches,,sharks,,WMC,,bars and lap dances got the better of me...

yeah and the whole time i was getting paid by you and could only work as fast as you were lol so i felt guilty in a sense........but the fact that i risked my life and hung from a 100 foot tall tree with a chain saw and nothing to support me but a cheap ass rope makes up for it.......you will never catch that on video again.....i promise you that! hahahahaha fuck dude when are you buying another house so we can do it all over again?

and speaking of lazy ass union workers......im stuck on a double today and working with the laziest mother ****** in our department........i feel like choking this SOB.

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Originally posted by vtec junkie and speaking of lazy ass union workers......im stuck on a double today and working with the laziest mother ****** in our department........i feel like choking this SOB.

push his ass down a manhole. That's a win-win; no lazy fuck for you, and no work plus workman's comp pay for him.

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Originally posted by vtec junkie yeah and the whole time i was getting paid by you and could only work as fast as you were lol so i felt guilty in a sense........but the fact that i risked my life and hung from a 100 foot tall tree with a chain saw and nothing to support me but a cheap ass rope makes up for it.......you will never catch that on video again.....i promise you that! hahahahaha fuck dude when are you buying another house so we can do it all over again? and speaking of lazy ass union workers......im stuck on a double today and working with the laziest mother ****** in our department........i feel like choking this SOB.

Good times Bro but the next thing we'll buy will be a club..

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Sunnysideup Presents 16 Bit Lolitas @ Underbar Boston 04/23
Sunnysideup Presents Nic Fanciulli @ Studio B Brooklyn 06/20
Sunnysideup Presents Rhode Kill 18/19/20 July
website-myspace-[email protected]