quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, you're incredibly naive then if you take people on face value. Their actions reflect they don't give a fuck how much 'collateral damage' is inflicted.

what? i am sure there is plenty of collateral damage inflicted by those that would rather not have done it. as there are plenty as you say, that don't give a fuck. i think its rather simplistic to assume every single person in the military enjoys butchering civilians.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN what? i am sure there is plenty of collateral damage inflicted by those that would rather not have done it. as there are plenty as you say, that don't give a fuck. i think its rather simplistic to assume every single person in the military enjoys butchering civilians.

I don't recall saying every single person or even making a specific and isolated reference to the military. But every single person does follow orders weather they like it or not. They serve a system that doesn't serve them. But this isn't about the military or people in it. They do not formulate policy and are nothing more than pawns serving as cannon fodder for the powers that be. And there are enough, not many, a small minority, but still enough examples of brave men and women in the armed forces who decide to follow their conscience over orders they receive. That included the US military and even the IDF.

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Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
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Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't recall saying every single person or even making a specific and isolated reference to the military. But every single person does follow orders weather they like it or not. They serve a system that doesn't serve them. But this isn't about the military or people in it. They do not formulate policy and are nothing more than pawns serving as cannon fodder for the powers that be. And there are enough, not many, a small minority, but still enough examples of brave men and women in the armed forces who decide to follow their conscience over orders they receive. That included the US military and even the IDF.

i guess im confused at whom i was taking "at face value".

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quote:

THE Pentagon has released a video and audio tape that appears to confirm its charge that Iranian speedboats swarmed US warships in the Strait of Hormuz and radioed a threat to blow them up. The video, which the Pentagon said was taken from the bridge of the destroyer USS Hopper, showed fast boats approaching the warships at high speeds and racing around the Hopper, the USS Port Royal and the USS Ingraham. A man's voice is heard in an audio recording speak in English amid a sailor's urgent warnings to stay clear of the ship. "I am coming to you... You will explode in a few minutes,'' the voice is heard to say. he Pentagon has said that two of five Iranian speedboats also dropped white floating boxes in the path of the Ingraham, but that was not evident in the four minute 20-second video file. The blue-hulled speedboats appear first as small objects on the horizon, approaching the Hopper. A sailor in the bridge of the destroyer is seen in the video picking up a radio handset and identifying his vessel as a coalition warship engaged in a transit in international waters. "You are approaching coalition warships in international waters,'' he says as the ship's horns begin to sound. "Establish communications, identify yourself and state your intentions. Over.'' The video then jumps to shots of the speedboats circling and darting among the two trailing US warships - the Port Royal, a cruiser, and the Ingraham, a frigate. The Pentagon has said that the speedboats were believed to belong to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard navy, but no Iranian flags or markings were apparent on them in the video tape. The US sailor in the video refers to them as five unidentified small craft. The video ends but the audio continues with the sound of the man's voice saying, I am coming to you.'' The same voice as the sailor seen in the video is heard warning: "Inbound small craft, you are approaching a coalition warship operating in international waters. Your identity is not known, your intentions are unclear... "Establish communications now, and alter course immediately to remain clear,'' he said. "We request you alter course immediately to remain clear.'' At that point, the other voice is heard to say: "You will explode in a few minutes.'' US President George W. Bush blamed Tehran for the "provocative'' face-off. "We viewed it as a provocative act. It is a dangerous situation and they should not have done it, pure and simple,'' Mr Bush declared in his first public remarks on the incident. "My message today to the Iranians is, they shouldn't have done what they did,'' he said. "I don't know what their thinking was, but I'm telling you what I think it was, I think it was a provocative act.'' Iran denied the US charges that its patrol boats had threatened to blow up the American ships. "What happened between the Guards and foreign vessels was an ordinary identification,'' Ali Reza Tangsiri, commander of the Guards' naval forces in the region, told the Mehr news agency. He said the Guards' naval forces had a right to monitor and identify "any vessel entering Persian Gulf waters'' to the northwest.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,2359...415-401,00.html

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^^^

looks like Iran was just fuckin with their heads,and looks like they did a good job.

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer ^^^ looks like Iran was just fuckin with their heads,and looks like they did a good job.

how can you so casually dismiss something like that (assuming its accurate)? after the carl vinson they're lucky they werent blown out of the water.

its incidents like this that start wars, you know

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN how can you so casually dismiss something like that (assuming its accurate)? after the carl vinson they're lucky they werent blown out of the water. its incidents like this that start wars, you know

I know what you are saying PKC,and to be honeset this whole thing doesnt make alot of sense,there is probably something that we dont know about this story.I wouldnt be surprised if the U.S is overexadurating this incident.

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i know those boats. the U.S.S. Port Royal and the U.S.S. Hopper. they are out of Pearl Harbor and complete hunks of shit. just kidding. the Ingraham i'm not familiar with. these units are there on an International mandate. the only Gulf state that does not want them there is guess who? Iran. Iran was baiting them to fire on them. it would obviously be a win/win situation for Iran if we had. that, in itself, is the most troubling. our units probably have a go/no go range (they probably have them in stages). in other words there are different ranges that they will attach different firing priorities to given hostile contacts. if a hostile comes within those range circles at given speeds or angles of attack, there are certain rules of engagement the Captain will specify automatically. obviously the Iranians were outside the "die mutherfukker" range. you can expect Iran to test them again. Iran could be doing it for shits and grins or they could be doing it to drive up oil prices who knows. it's way overblown and again, those Units are there on an International mandate. that obviously won't stop the rabble from BLAME AMERICA FIRST!!!!! EDIT> i just realized i used "obviously" three times in this post. sweet.

I'll go with the shits and grins rationale. Seems like they're being that little bratty middle-child kid who didn't get enough attention and wants any attention now no matter if it's positive or negative. I'd say they're trying to rub it in our faces after the intelligence report coming up a little empty for Bush on Iran's nuke capabilities.

Other than that, I can't see what they have to gain for provoking the Navy at all.

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Iran is still mightily pissed off about a lot of stuff from the past 100 years; a lot of foreign interference, and now today they want to show the world, and especially their #1 & 2 enemies that they won't be pushed around anymore.

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Originally posted by Krypton Iran is still mightily pissed off about a lot of stuff from the past 100 years; a lot of foreign interference, and now today they want to show the world, and especially their #1 & 2 enemies that they won't be pushed around anymore.

yeah, coz iran never interferes with any other countries.

im surprised to see people apologising for such a brutally oppressive regime. they hacked off some hands and feet of burglars just last week. at least now if they re-offend they'll be easier to catch.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Iran is still mightily pissed off about a lot of stuff from the past 100 years; a lot of foreign interference, and now today they want to show the world, and especially their #1 & 2 enemies that they won't be pushed around anymore.

The U.S has been sticking its nose in Irans politics for years,and now Iran is giving them a taste of their own medicine.

As you said it youself Iran will not be pushed around by the west anymore,those days are over.

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