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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > US ranks last in Healthcare
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC


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Old Post Jan-15-2008 16:16  United Nations
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

^hey is youtube working alright for you?>

Old Post Jan-15-2008 17:41 
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by guerra-monstru
^hey is youtube working alright for you?>


yeah.


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Old Post Jan-15-2008 17:47  United Nations
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatniko
yeah.

It's not loading for me...help?

Old Post Jan-15-2008 17:58 
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by guerra-monstru
It's not loading for me...help?



Direct link? I dunno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys91bhcWZTA


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Old Post Jan-15-2008 18:01  United Nations
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatniko
Direct link? I dunno.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys91bhcWZTA


lol thank you!!

Old Post Jan-15-2008 18:26 
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Omega_M
Nostalgia



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Ether

I think youtube is down.


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Old Post Jan-15-2008 18:40  India
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

@Neo....
.....Are you comparing your healthcare to the developing world? I mean come on.....public healthcare depends on taxes and most people in the US pay for their taxes not like here in Mexico..we don't fear our government
Also would you rank American's as depressed? B/c that is what keeps UK down most of their populace are drunk and depressed. Right George?
Just look at things this way can the American public change and be responsible for themselves to be able handle public healthcare or is it not possible at all? It seems like you would never accept it because of pay...

Old Post Jan-16-2008 15:28 
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NeoPhono
Übermensch



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: In Orbit

quote:
Originally posted by guerra-monstru
@Neo....
.....Are you comparing your healthcare to the developing world? I mean come on.....public healthcare depends on taxes and most people in the US pay for their taxes not like here in Mexico..we don't fear our government
Also would you rank American's as depressed? B/c that is what keeps UK down most of their populace are drunk and depressed. Right George?
Just look at things this way can the American public change and be responsible for themselves to be able handle public healthcare or is it not possible at all? It seems like you would never accept it because of pay...


Well, I'm not quite sure of the exact questions you're asking, but I'll take shot.

I'm not comparing the US health system to those of the developing world, but to other "Western" forms of medicine. However, I'm mostly just making comments on our current system, what is wrong with it, and what I believe needs to change. Public healthcare is funded primarily through taxes, and to a lesser degree from charitable or other contributions, but even the "privatized" American system is to a large degree funded through taxes. This can be either directly or through "hidden" taxes from regulation and administrative costs. My fear is the thought of the government being responsible for the health of 300 million people. It has difficulty in small-scale projects that don't deal directly with people's well-being. I shudder to think of the waste and red tape that would arise from a national health agency. It also does not get past the problem of having non-medical people making health decisions that we sometimes have with health insurance companies.

I don't think Americans are depressed, per se, but they have a very difficult time of thinking in the long-term and don't do very well when reacting to the consequences. Obesity is a perfect example. People enjoy eating whenever and whatever they want and they also enjoy being physically inactive. There are other factors involved, but people decide to eat what they want and not be physically fit and then they have to deal with the consequences. Unfortunately, those consequences not only affect their own health, but the health of others through increased costs and lower availability. There has begun to be a backlash against the obese for this, but the major blame is still put on the healthcare system for higher costs. Americans seek instant gratification rather than long term stability. They want a new house now, a new car now, a new plasma TV now, but they don't want to pay now for health problems that might occur later. I also fear that this is also how Americans see a change to a socialized system; instant, "free" healthcare for all without looking at the long-term consequences.

How do we change this pervasive short-sightedness? The only way is to show that long-term payoffs are far greater than short-term ones, but that is not easy. It's not easy to change an entire culture's mentality, but I think without that happening, any healthcare system the US decides upon is doomed.

As to your last question, about "pay," here's what I worry about. Healthcare is a tough way to make a living. I'm not saying that it doesn't have its benefits and I'm not saying other professions are easy, but that healthcare has unique challenges that most people simply couldn't make a career dealing with. My job everyday is to deal with sick, injured or dying people. Preventative medicine of healthy patients does happen, but getting back to my last point, most people only see a doctor when not healthy. These daily interactions can be difficult on many levels, and when added to the cost and time that is invested in education, medicine is a difficult field. My motivation for going into medicine was not money, as it's not for 99% of doctors. We're here because we want to help people and we know the difficulties involved. However, there does come a point where the payoff no longer balances the cost of working in healthcare. Our ability to make sound medical decisions has already been severely hampered from health insurance companies (HMO's), government regulations, public perception and ridiculous paperwork messes, things most feel would be even worse in a socialized system. Now, we're also having to worry about a system where physician and nurse salaries would be lowered to the point where the costs are no longer proportionate with the gains. I love what I do and I can't imagine doing anything else. However, if it gets to the point where another field is less time consuming, less stressful and has monetary rewards that meet or exceed my own, while still allowing some sort of job satisfaction, I'd be an idiot not to change fields. We already have a healthcare worker shortage and making it an even less attractive field because of the reasons I just talked about would make the problem even worse.

Old Post Jan-16-2008 16:49  United States
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

Ok so what you are basically stating is that you and the majority of classmates become doctors because it pays well. However, if pay decreases many of you would rather be social workers or teachers because that pay would probably equilevant or more than doctors so it would lead to a shortage?
Man oh man are american doctors spoiled or what? My cousin is becoming a plastic surgeon and he HAS to go to a small village in Mexico and treat the people that come to him. He doesn't get paid by currency he gets paid by the people either bringing him chickens or inviting him to dinner etc etc. Wouldn't it be really good if American doctors could learn a little bit of humbleness?

Old Post Jan-16-2008 20:49 
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

good. the last thing this world needs is more americans living longer. it's the dangerously stupid ones that are dying young anyway...


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Old Post Jan-16-2008 20:56  United States
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guerra-monstru
Suspended User



Registered: Jan 2008
Location: D.F., Mexico

quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
good. the last thing this world needs is more americans living longer. it's the dangerously stupid ones that are dying young anyway...
It's cruel to look at things that way and the sad thing is that I think Neo feels the same way.

Old Post Jan-16-2008 20:58 
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