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Originally posted by echosystm doing that much cardio is only going to waste your muscles away. infact, it will probably make your body try to hold onto fat. hence, you get that skinny arms, bloated stomach (skinny fat) look.

Yeah, I've noticed that a lot of cross-country runners are actually kind of chubby (although the top ones are usually stick-figures like the guy in that picture).

Ever since being on the swim team in high school I've done my aerobic training with some kind of intervals.

I focus a lot more on the quality of a session (speed and intensity) than on quantity (distance).

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Originally posted by echosystm you don't even need cardio to lose weight. you do realise that, right? as long as you are eating less calories than you are using, you will lose weight. the type of activity you do, however, determines how much muscle you will lose in doing so. doing too much cardio, your body will begin to catabolise your muscles. this is a fact, don't argue with it. conversely, doing short bursts of HIIT gives your cardiovascular system a much harder work out. as a result, your metabolism remains elevated for many hours to follow. this does not occur with low-medium intensity cardio. FYI, when i started 4 years ago, i was 96kg. 3 months later, i was 69kg.

I meant fat, not weight, and of course u might be losing some mass, but it "looks" better to be at a lower bf with slightly smaller muscles (aka Brad pitt in Fight Club) since u can see the definition. Bulking up is easy long as u eat enough.

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Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY I meant fat, not weight

what other kind of weight would i be talking about? water weight?



when you are cutting, you want to preserve as much muscle as you can, or you will not look fit and anabolic. your advice on this is terrible.

it is good that you are trying to help, and your diet advice was sound. but, don't waste other people's time if you don't know what you're talking about plz.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

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Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

Last edited by echosystm on Apr-13-2008 at 04:02

listen to echosystem.. he knows from experience

And as a certified perosnal trainer i agree that weight loss primarily has to do with calorie counting and diet. Cardio is just to help create a calorie deficit. Its pretty useless without proper diet.


diet 1

cardio 2

Listen to Karim, he's a personal trainer.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm back when i was still into lifting, i got down to 10% bodyfat doing cardio twice a week for 15 minutes... i don't even have good genes; everyone in my family has underactive thyroids heh... doing that much cardio is only going to waste your muscles away. infact, it will probably make your body try to hold onto fat. hence, you get that skinny arms, bloated stomach (skinny fat) look. you want to keep your body as anabolic as possible and what you're suggesting is 100% catabolic every day.

I wonder why the hell the trainer at the gym told me to do that. I remember I was pissed because I didn't gain as much muscle as I thought I would after 1 year (probably because of the cardio, as you're saying), and my belly was still bloated =/

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Last edited by Lira on Apr-13-2008 at 04:35

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Originally posted by Lira I wonder why the hell the trainer at the gym told me to do that.

because 99% of trainers are bullshit artists. they just want you to have fun so you keep comming back and give them more money. did they get you to do boxing? how about balancing exercises and weird stretches?

If you want make some serious changes, start reading! www.bodybuilding.com is an excellent resource, but you need to watch out for all the stupid meat-head pseudo science. Learn the fundamentals of nutrition and training. Don't listen to supplement advice, it's mostly bs. The only supplements I would take are a multivitamin, vitamin c, fish/flax oil and creatine. Protein powder is over rated - real meat is much better because it doesn't absorb in like 20 minutes...

Alternatively, go to a bodybuilding gym and find a NATURAL trainer who has done some competing himself. Although the roid boys will know more than your common garden variety trainer, they will push the supps alot and could give you some crap advice too.

I think the first option is best though. The more you know, the easier it is to maintain a good physique. I can't really train anymore, due to a nasty collarbone injury, but I still manage to stay in OK shape!

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

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Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

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Originally posted by echosystm because 99% of trainers are bullshit artists. they just want you to have fun so you keep comming back and give them more money. did they get you to do boxing? how about balancing exercises and weird stretches?

No boxing, no balancing, but I can relate do this weird stretching techniques

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm If you want make some serious changes, start reading! www.bodybuilding.com is an excellent resource, but you need to watch out for all the stupid meat-head pseudo science. Learn the fundamentals of nutrition and training. Don't listen to supplement advice, it's mostly bs. The only supplements I would take are a multivitamin, vitamin c, fish/flax oil and creatine. Protein powder is over rated - real meat is much better because it doesn't absorb in like 20 minutes...

What about vegetarians? Got any tips?

Also, I thought of doing some reading on my own but I always thought it was like self-medication. How can I know I'm not doing something wrong?

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Originally posted by echosystm Alternatively, go to a bodybuilding gym and find a NATURAL trainer who has done some competing himself. Although the roid boys will know more than your common garden variety trainer, they will push the supps alot and could give you some crap advice too.

hmm... I'm going to look for that... I've never seen one of these here but the search is worth it

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Originally posted by Lira What about vegetarians? Got any tips?

i'm not super knowledgeable about vegetarians, unfortunately. in terms of micronutrients, you need to be taking some form of iron supplement, if you aren't already. imo, everyone should be taking a basic multivitamin and vitamin c. in particular, you may benefit greatly from creatine supplementation, as it only comes from red meat. look into that!

realistically, you just have to eat the same as everyone else, but replace meat with tofu and so on. for bodybuilders, 1.6-1.8g of protein per KG of bodyweight seems to be recommended. i would say 1.6g is good, but soy proteins may not absorb as well as others, so it could be more (or less?).

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

this website should be of great use to you!

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Originally posted by Lira hmm... I'm going to look for that... I've never seen one of these here but the search is worth it

don't laugh, but gay gyms are usually the best. it's a bit of a lulz being one of like 5 straight guys who go there, but most dudes at my gym really know their shit. infact, pretty much all the biggest dudes in this city have gone to my gym at some point haha.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I've never had a problem with FLs tech support till this day. (I've actually never used it till this day)

quote:

Originally posted by floyd741 i think echosystm is a pretty cool guy. eh pwns robby rox and doesn't afraid of anything.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm i'm not super knowledgeable about vegetarians, unfortunately. in terms of micronutrients, you need to be taking some form of iron supplement, if you aren't already. imo, everyone should be taking a basic multivitamin and vitamin c. in particular, you may benefit greatly from creatine supplementation, as it only comes from red meat. look into that! realistically, you just have to eat the same as everyone else, but replace meat with tofu and so on. for bodybuilders, 1.6-1.8g of protein per KG of bodyweight seems to be recommended. i would say 1.6g is good, but soy proteins may not absorb as well as others, so it could be more (or less?). http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/ this website should be of great use to you!

I'll look into that, thanks

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Originally posted by echosystm don't laugh, but gay gyms are usually the best. it's a bit of a lulz being one of like 5 straight guys who go there, but most dudes at my gym really know their shit. infact, pretty much all the biggest dudes in this city have gone to my gym at some point haha.

Great, it's just like music in gay clubs

Now all I have to find is gay people... Apparently, my nerdy lifestyle doesn't seem to attract much gayness around me

I'll go to a gay club and see what happens.

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quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Listen to Karim, he's a personal trainer.

OHHHHHHH snap..!