quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Are you fucking kidding?

no, i'm not. i'm letting Obama speak for me.

like i said to you already.

1. he never said anything like that before.

2. he said it to people who politically and socially eat that shit up for money.

2. it fly's recklessly in the face of what he's already said in his famous race speech.

what part of i'm not kidding do you not understand?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo you just don't say shit like "they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." thats something a liberal politician looking for money in SanFrancisco would say.

Or a Democratic politician from Virginia who's son is in Iraq and was once a Reagan supporter himself, I guess as well.......

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo yeah, tell that to the millions of people he was talking about do you think people "cling to implicitly stupid ideas" like the one's Obama described out of bitterness or because of other more personal reasons? my point is it was a an arrogant elitist sell he was trying to make in San Francisco. no where close to the populist ideals he espouses. all eveidence, despite what he verbalizes on the stump in the places he was refering, points to a very different person. nope, not gonna be President.

Of course you'd say that, you're looking for every excuse you can get to cling to whatever myopia you're stuck within.

The craziest thing to me is that you can't even step out of your own shoes and recognize that.

You do want a better future, right?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Of course you'd say that, you're looking for every excuse you can get to cling to whatever myopia you're stuck within. The craziest thing to me is that you can't even step out of your own shoes and recognize that. You do want a better future, right?

dude wtf do you care, really?

either discuss the topic, answer my question to you, or scoop the sand out of your vag.

do whichever one you want or stfu and ride your bike to 7-11 and get me some smokes.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Of course you'd say that, you're looking for every excuse you can get to cling to whatever myopia you're stuck within. The craziest thing to me is that you can't even step out of your own shoes and recognize that. You do want a better future, right?

You're asking someone who views Obama in a very similar manner as you may view McCain. You may very well view McCain as someone who's policies run parallel to Bush's, and you may disagree strongly with those views as I do as well.

But that's not to say that Q believes such policies or philosophies are wrong, in fact it seems pretty obvious after all these years that he agrees with the majority of them set forth by this Administration.

To Q, a better future does not lie in someone who wants to stear us away from the present course, especially in an "elitist" librul like Obama . A better future for those who still approve of Bush are with someone who holds similar views to the same policies.

I think Q steps out of his own shoes plenty of times, but in the end his views still run similar to the present course of events set out by Bush. We can certainly disagree with that and point out why we disagree, but I don't think you'll be getting very far by asking him to step out of himself when he's pretty set in who he is and what he believes in, just like you or I.

Of course I leave room for Q to correct me. I didn't want to necessarily put words in his mouth. The more I've argued with him, the more he reminds me of my hard-nosed Conservative brother, except my brother has a major religious influence on himself that I don't see in Q. You don't change the minds of folks like Q by asking him to step out of himself when he's quite comfortable who he is. We just continue to argue and point out the flaws in the arguments of each other, knowing we're not likely going to make too many dents in our political beliefs.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo dude wtf do you care, really? either discuss the topic, answer my question to you, or scoop the sand out of your vag. do whichever one you want or stfu and ride your bike to 7-11 and get me some smokes.

Guess I asked a dangerous question or something?

Anyway, chill man, I'm not the bad guy, and I'm not out to get you. I just know there are solutions. It's a matter of discovering them... and I hope it doesn't involve leaving out groups of people who get "stuck".

But not getting "stuck" is a personal matter to analyze and overcome; if we're a team, you're holding us back from our potential. Or are you so selfish that you don't even care?

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Or a Democratic politician from Virginia who's son is in Iraq and was once a Reagan supporter himself, I guess as well.......

really?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo really?

Yes.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby But not getting "stuck" is a personal matter to analyze and overcome; if we're a team, you're holding us back from our potential. Or are you so selfish that you don't even care?

i'm not sure what you mean by "stuck"

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and claim what i think is what is good for this country and what you think is whats good for this country are two completely different, probably fundamentally opposite things. we call this politics.

this particular discussion isn't about me. it's not about you either. you want Barak Obama to be the next POTUS? defend him. you don't care? don't defend him. leave me out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Yes.

..........alright i'll take your word for it.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 You're asking someone who views Obama in a very similar manner as you may view McCain. You may very well view McCain as someone who's policies run parallel to Bush's, and you may disagree strongly with those views as I do as well. But that's not to say that Q believes such policies or philosophies are wrong, in fact it seems pretty obvious after all these years that he agrees with the majority of them set forth by this Administration. To Q, a better future does not lie in someone who wants to stear us away from the present course, especially in an "elitist" librul like Obama . A better future for those who still approve of Bush are with someone who holds similar views to the same policies. I think Q steps out of his own shoes plenty of times, but in the end his views still run similar to the present course of events set out by Bush. We can certainly disagree with that and point out why we disagree, but I don't think you'll be getting very far by asking him to step out of himself when he's pretty set in who he is and what he believes in, just like you or I. Of course I leave room for Q to correct me. I didn't want to necessarily put words in his mouth. The more I've argued with him, the more he reminds me of my hard-nosed Conservative brother, except my brother has a major religious influence on himself that I don't see in Q. You don't change the minds of folks like Q by asking him to step out of himself when he's quite comfortable who he is. We just continue to argue and point out the flaws in the arguments of each other, knowing we're not likely going to make too many dents in our political beliefs.

How do I "view McCain"?

I don't play this dichotomous choreography you two do, and I see a lot of bullshit everywhere waiting to be cleaned up (not necessarily from you guys, but from modern politics in general). My goal isn't to insult anyone's character, as diversity is extremely healthy for the whole; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't worry about the least of us in order to benefit the most of us. And the ratio is an evolution in itself in any decent democracy.

I think there will always be those who injure themselves and their children and even those they never meet, without even being consciously aware of it and perhaps without even caring. That's the obstacle to overcome, perhaps (hopefully?) through education; personal education always works best, but there has to be a drive.

I guess you're right in the sense that Q and I are on different levels of cognizence; the things I value and hope for are completely foreign to his mind, and apparently vice versa.

Though I do ask you: what is his agenda?

For someone to stick to these kinds of ideas through so much information is self-delusionally dangerous, and I notice the hostility every time I say something. So basically we've got a specimen of the human problem, and no tools or means or desire to diagnose and cure the disease? Or are we content to just treat each other like children instead of adults, and ignore the symptoms altogether while hoping that by linking blobs of text on an internet forum we someone palliate our differences?

Maybe, but who has the guns, and who has the hostile soul?

I'm just looking at this seemingly unbridgeable chasm and seeing exactly the rifts which cause all the problems in our world today. The division line, that is, it's that closed-minded certainty and nationalism, and only a fool would miss the agenda. Does everyone have an agenda? So what's his agenda?

The source of all problems is miscommunication. Poison spreads easily through miscommunication, whether it be intentional or unintentional... who knows what effects have come down to making someone who they are, perhaps even chemical or biological in origin.

But there has to be some middle ground for any rational individual, else I come to ask myself who they're working for and why. Maybe it's the scientist in my soul, but I don't trust a man who doesn't see green in the forest for the trees.

Honestly, a good system overall shouldn't have to rely on the election of an executive; it should stabilize itself and have mechanisms and failsafes to balance the evolution of itself and the harmony/balance of its integrity despite the hardships any human system will impose. It seems a lot of wrenches in the form of modern capitalism/weaponry/opiation/etc have been tossed into the original cogs, and we're just not able to see and rectify the system to suit our healthy progression.

Last edited by DJ Shibby on Apr-14-2008 at 03:21