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Originally posted by ibizzzaaa But music doesn't necessarily have to be complex. For example, Boards Of Canada, I mean you have to admit their material isn't very difficult to get into, but yet it is pleasant and fun to listen to. I would like to see more dance music aesthetically closer to what Boards of Canada do - top quality, moderately simple, yet never any concrete, obligatory structure that literally strangles most of EDM for me. Most Border Community releases have achieved that aesthetic quite well, as well as material on Holden's Balance and At The Controls. I guess a lot of times EDM just takes itself too seriously and tries to be either too "deep" or too melodic, turning most of the time into being just too predictable, thus pretentious. Post punk groups of early 80's were on a pretty low level as far as their abilities with playing instruments went, yet they didn't hide it and therefore their sound was always energetic and fun to listen to. It's not always about complexity.

Oh so you would like more experimental dance music. Well, i guess that it is difficult to both make "dance" and "good experimental" at the same time. And by "good experimental" i mean a record which is innovative AND musical at the same time, because, usually (and unfortunately) people these days associate "experimental" with clicks and glitches.

Anyway, i don't thing that "dance music" was ever extremely innovative or experimental.Well, i guess that Detroit-techno or German Trance were a bit, but that was due to the new usege of synths and drum-machines, and these new futuristic sounds, not to the music per se. If you have "dance" music, you need hooks, catchy rhythms, simple stuck-in-the-mind riffs and stuff. Yet there are degrees to such a musical structure, and you surely can go at up to a certain level of innovation and musicianship with such things, but you definitelly never gonna break barriers through dance music.


Plus, some early 80s post-punk groups made a limited usage of their instruments but produced some AMAZING serious music, not just "music that is fan to listen to". e.g.


Joy Division - "Closer"
The Cure- "Pornography"
The Comsat Angels - "Sleep No More"
The Sound - "From The Lion's Mouth"
Cocteau Twins - "Treasure"
The Chameleons - "What Does Anything Mean Basically"
Echo and The Bunnymen - "Ocean Rain"


(absolute "serious" perfection in all of these)

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Originally posted by ibizzzaaa PETRAN, thanks a lot for these! I've listened to some Can before - definitely solid! Speaking of post-rock, it's hard for me to imagine something better than Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Thee Silver Mt. Zion. I've heard M83 before, it was a bit too cutesy for me. But I will check out the rest. Once again, thank you!

Oh, so you know the "parents" of post-rock GYBE! and ASMZ.


I guess sthat you know Explosions in The Sky as well? "The Earth is Not A Cold Dead Place" is excellent.


Plus possibly the best post-rock album from 2007


Caspian - "The Four Trees"

Heh, but check all of these, you can find some good stuff. Now ofcourse that was not a thread of recommendations but an EDM-discussion thread my bad...sorry lol.

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Originally posted by PETRAN Plus, some early 80s post-punk groups made a limited usage of their instruments but produced some AMAZING serious music, not just "music that is fan to listen to". e.g. Joy Division - "Closer" The Cure- "Pornography" The Comsat Angels - "Sleep No More" The Sound - "From The Lion's Mouth" Cocteau Twins - "Treasure" The Chameleons - "What Does Anything Mean Basically" Echo and The Bunnymen - "Ocean Rain" (absolute "serious" perfection in all of these)

I prefer "Unknown Pleasures" instead of "Closer", "Faith" instead of "Pornography", and "Head Over Heels" instead of "Treasure."

And yes, some of those new wave records were much more that just fun music.

I've heard Explosions In The Sky Peel Session once; thought it was some pretty generic post-rock, didn't have enough edge to it.

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Originally posted by PETRAN Oh so you would like more experimental dance music. Well, i guess that it is difficult to both make "dance" and "good experimental" at the same time. And by "good experimental" i mean a record which is innovative AND musical at the same time, because, usually (and unfortunately) people these days associate "experimental" with clicks and glitches.

Theoretically, it doesn't sound too difficult to me: experimenting sounds laid over the four-to-the-floor. But the big problem here is I guess fear of it not being picked up by the dj's elite, and, most importantly, lack of proper knowledge of music as a whole and shallow influences.

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Originally posted by ibizzzaaa Theoretically, it doesn't sound too difficult to me: experimenting sounds laid over the four-to-the-floor. But the big problem here is I guess fear of it not being picked up by the dj's elite, and, most importantly, lack of proper knowledge of music as a whole and shallow influences.

I think that's not so rare these days. I don't listen to lot of minimal, but, for example, Solieb (Oliver Lieb's project) and Sleeparchive are experimenting with all sorts of weird sounds, effects and samples in their tracks. You probably want something along the lines of Holden's remix of The Sky Was Pink, but I really can't help you with that, altough I'm sure something similar exists these days. Maybe you should ask some of the cool scene kids?

But experimenting with four-to-the-floor is really hard, since four-to-the-floor itself is pretty limiting, so most of the times you'll end up with tracks that use tons of effects on top of some generic repetitive beat. That tracks are, in most cases, musically very poor and uninteresting.

So take my previous advice and just listen to some quality non-dancable experimental music (I hate the IDM word, but sometimes it's just easier to use). And when you want to dance, just put some quality Detroit techno.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks that Heaven Or Las Vegas is the finest Cocteau Twins' work?

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Everything is just so focused on what is trendy and hyped up at the moment.

I dont give a shit. As far as track is sounding good (even old one), i will spin it in my set. Sometimes this is even better, because it gives more dimensions to the sets. For me, good old tracks are equal with the new ones. The difference is: new tracks are ...umm ... NEW..

There is still some killer tunes in my archive, which i play now and then. That archive includes some Trentemoller's older art.

I agree with the original post and I think Djs should reach back and get something classic once and awhile but at the same time it's good to see the scene evolve with each new song that is released trendy or not.

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Originally posted by sljiva I think that's not so rare these days. I don't listen to lot of minimal, but, for example, Solieb (Oliver Lieb's project) and Sleeparchive are experimenting with all sorts of weird sounds, effects and samples in their tracks. You probably want something along the lines of Holden's remix of The Sky Was Pink, but I really can't help you with that, altough I'm sure something similar exists these days. Maybe you should ask some of the cool scene kids? But experimenting with four-to-the-floor is really hard, since four-to-the-floor itself is pretty limiting, so most of the times you'll end up with tracks that use tons of effects on top of some generic repetitive beat. That tracks are, in most cases, musically very poor and uninteresting. So take my previous advice and just listen to some quality non-dancable experimental music (I hate the IDM word, but sometimes it's just easier to use). And when you want to dance, just put some quality Detroit techno. BTW, am I the only one who thinks that Heaven Or Las Vegas is the finest Cocteau Twins' work?

Seems like you're trying to throw a bit an insult there, when saying "maybe you should ask some of the cool scene kids." Cool scene kids right now listen to a lot of that electroclash/chiptune rubbish. And besides, whenever something enters that phase of popularity, I lose interest because it naturally just starts sounding more compromising, watered down and malleable. And yes, that Sky Was Pink remix is a prime example for me of a solid dance track. If it didn't become this huge, I probably would have never discovered it, but if I did - my opinion of it would still be the same. My preference of minimal-style 4x4 percussion has absolutely nothing to do with its overall hype at the moment. But, I have to admit, the hype is what initially caused the discovery of it.

What would you say is the peak period for Detroit Techno? Because I've attempted to listen to some collections of works by Juan Atkins and Derrick May from late-80's, and to me it was just an interesting as to see what EDM of the 90's burgeoned from. But one track that I've really liked so far was Atkins' remix of Beltram's "Instant", which dates back to 1996.

I haven't listened to that Cocteau Twins' album yet, but I've heard the common opinion that they began to dramatically decline at the turn of 90's. But I won't take word for it.

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Originally posted by ibizzzaaa Seems like you're trying to throw a bit an insult there, when saying "maybe you should ask some of the cool scene kids." Cool scene kids right now listen to a lot of that electroclash/chiptune rubbish. And besides, whenever something enters that phase of popularity, I lose interest because it naturally just starts sounding more compromising, watered down and malleable. And yes, that Sky Was Pink remix is a prime example for me of a solid dance track. If it didn't become this huge, I probably would have never discovered it, but if I did - my opinion of it would still be the same. My preference of minimal-style 4x4 percussion has absolutely nothing to do with its overall hype at the moment. But, I have to admit, the hype is what initially caused the discovery of it. What would you say is the peak period for Detroit Techno? Because I've attempted to listen to some collections of works by Juan Atkins and Derrick May from late-80's, and to me it was just an interesting as to see what EDM of the 90's burgeoned from. But one track that I've really liked so far was Atkins' remix of Beltram's "Instant", which dates back to 1996. I haven't listened to that Cocteau Twins' album yet, but I've heard the common opinion that they began to dramatically decline at the turn of 90's. But I won't take word for it.

I hope you're not implying that I'm the scene kid since I liked that Crystal Castles album. We obviously differ with regard to scene kids, so I won't even comment that first part of your post.

About Detroit techno: I recommended it since it's my favourite type of techno. Maybe you won't think very much of it, since there are some other not-so-dated/more attractive types (like dub techno or UK abstract techno) of techno out there, but if you want to explore it a little more here are some suggestions:
Galaxy 2 Galaxy - Hi-Tech Jazz (The Science)
Carl Craig - Wrap Me In Its Arms (Inst.)
3MB - Die Kosmischen Kuriere (Magic Juan Mix)
Neuropolitique - Artemis (Mayday Mix)
Psyche - Crack Down
Underground Resistance - The Punisher
X-101 - Sonic Destroyer / The Theory
Kenny Larkin - Integration
and other stuff from Octave One, Jeff Mills, F.U.S.E., Claude Young, Blake Baxter...

If you want to give one more chance to 1st wave here are some cool tracks:
I don't particularly like Juan (compared to some others), but the made some awesome stuff under the Model 500 moniker like:
No UFO's (Inst) / Off To Battle / The Chase (Mayday's Version) / Ocean To Ocean (Global Mix) / Play It Cool (Instrumental)
Derrick May and his Rhythim Is Rhythim alias is much better choice:
Strings Of Life / Nude Photo / The Dance (Living Room Mix) / It Is What It Is (Majestic Mix) / Icon
Master Reese is my least favourite of the three, he was always more into house, but you might check out his Reese alias, maybe you'll find something interesting.
Eddie "Flashin" Fowlkes - Goodbye Kiss / Get It Live (Instrumental)
Suburban Knight - The Groove (Hot Mix) / The Art Of Stalking (Stalker Mix)

If you want Detroit techno without the standard 4-t-t-f definitely check out John Beltram and Sean Deason, and from non-Detroit producers Steve Pickton (Stasis), Kirk Degiorgio (Esoterik, As One, Future/Past) and labels Likemind and Applied Rhythmic Technology

And definitely give a listen to Heaven Or Las Vegas, it's great. I think they started to decline just after that.

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Originally posted by sljiva If you want Detroit techno without the standard 4-t-t-f definitely check out John Beltram and Sean Deason, and from non-Detroit producers Steve Pickton (Stasis), Kirk Degiorgio (Esoterik, As One, Future/Past) and labels Likemind and Applied Rhythmic Technology

Excellent recommendations (I think you meant John Beltran), all this stuff is still as good today and blow away most of what's produced today. I'll add B12 and The Black Dog, to that list that I can listen at any time without being bored...

Yeah, m and n are so close on the keyboard, and then there's that other guy with a similar surname...

And big +1 on Black Dog and B12, and of course on all of their projects