quote:

Originally posted by MOK Cryophonik: Since when does knowing music theory determine whether one is a musician, or has the right to call themselves one? That's just silliness.

Uh, I never said that it did. I said that, in order to get into a good music program, you need to demonstrate some level of musical competency. Try reading my entire post and you'll see that I actually stated/implied in a few places that many successful musicians have no degree in music. For example:

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik ...most of the artists that you listen to don't have degrees in music and many are self-taught.

And, for the record, I believe that if you create music by pounding your fists on a keyboard and recording it in FLS, then you can call yourself a musician and you won't get much of an argument from me. But, that's a long way from guaranteeing your acceptance into a music program.

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Last edited by cryophonik on May-13-2008 at 15:06

Forgive me, for I am illiterate.

Meh, I read it all, just misread somehow.

No problem, MOK. We're essentially saying the same thing. The more music theory, knowledge, and experience you have, the better equipped you'll be as a musician. But, that doesn't mean that you need a degree to be successful, and a degree in music really means jack in the world of electronica, pop, rap, rock, etc.

I'm a perfect example of that - I'm by no means a top-notch producer even with my degree and years of experience. Every day on these forums I see guys and girls half my age with a fraction of my musical knowledge and experience produce killer tunes that I can only dream of.

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cryophonik.com | facebook | soundcloud

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No kiddin.
Hearing Ilya Malyuev makes me feel like I've failed at life!
But thats nonsense, just need more experience.

I can't distinguish between an artist and an musician. I do play some instruments. Though I can't read notes or hold chords, but I have a good sense of tempo. I'm not discourage or ecouraged and all your post counts and this thread will come in handy soon. I know there's a lot of jealousy and envy and politics involved in the business and it's gonna be more tough for me, but I don't care. Ya'll know why. I have a feeling that I can learn about music with total interest, at the same time it might fade away too. Hey, it's a short life! LOL

I know some people for the local scene, and some knows me well. I need a manager first. My gigs have been spoiled earlier, some ******s were airing it without my consent and that's why I had very few people on my guest list. Fuck that, there's more to come!

How was studying Music Theory like? What does the courses include? Are you signed up with any label companies?

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quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie My pussy is cold, please light my fire.

I get the impression you have some misconceptions on our motivations in this post, as well as how the music business works. We're not trying to discourage you, we're trying to make sure you understand reality. It looks to me that you've concocted a very grand and attractive preconception, and it seems to have already made up your mind, regardless of reality. Personally, bringing you back in reality is my motivation for replying. You'll be happier when things live up to your rough expectations.

A suggestion: If you're interested in working at a label, get a business degree. You'll be much, much, much more marketable in the music business and will not have lost anything in your music life, if you are truly are dedicated. Both can be pursued at the same time. I'd say that's a good plan.

I personally love learning music theory. The subject intrigues me every session, and I look forward to it every week. I love systems, and compared to other systems, music is quite strange and unique. It's a lot like philosophy - Enlightening, engaging, but most often useless.
Though I always enjoy my lessons, I do not have to study it every day as may be the case in a college... Who knows what I'd think of it then! The rest of my family are musicians as well, and they each hated learning music theory for different reasons. Whether or not you'll enjoy it is about as predictable as the flight path of a bee.

As we mentioned before, whether or not your have formal music training will not have much affect on if you turn out to become a great musician or artist. If you want to be always involved, if you want to create and release an album, make a club hit, be lauded as a visionary, if you want to be famous... Then get involved with music right now. Outside of school. School just ain't the place where any of those things happen, or even start. Music theory is nothing more than a tool, but you need to make yourself the craftsman before it's useful.

Start taking some weekly lessons in an instrument of your choice... Piano would help you the most. Or if you want something more fast paced than that, you could try signing up for a single piano class at a local community college. I recognize the frustration in wishing to know more, make it more a part of your life and who you are. But no matter what approach you take, it's going to take a lot of time, and even a high intensity college program will not change that. Patience, grasshoppa!

Fortunately, you're in the right place. Forums are an incredible place for learning. I'd also suggest books and reading on your own. The bunch of us can probably come to consensus on what would be a good series of reading to get started. And DigiNut's sticky thread of How To's is simply incredible. Read it all. I didn't consider myself a musician before reading that, but shortly after putting most of it to practice, yeah, I'm a musician now. You will be too. With a lot of intense reading time, and practice at applying what I read, it only took a couple months to really feel like I had a solid grip on what I was doing.

Alright im typing too much, ending post!

quote:

Originally posted by MOK A suggestion: If you're interested in working at a label, get a business degree. You'll be much, much, much more marketable in the music business and will not have lost anything in your music life, if you are truly are dedicated. Both can be pursued at the same time. I'd say that's a good plan.

Yup. And it will afford you the opportunity to earn a decent paycheck to pay for all the gear you'll want to produce with, too.

Those are some important points! What school do you go to MOK?

I just check up with some Unis in Ontario, I think the deadlines are over for September enrollment. There's a college program but I have check up with them. I might go to school for a different program from September. I'm determined that I'm getting a music degree anyway, maybe even after years later, just cause I want to learn in depth of it, who knows!

I do need to a sampler and some other equipments to finish up my studio and a decent paycheck for a day job would be nice to feed myself.

I'm agreeing with you every paragraph MOK and the fifth one caught my eye.

I type a lot too man, I think everyone can use this information

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Originally posted by Frenchie My pussy is cold, please light my fire.

my $0.02....

I always wanted to have a career in music but I have always been realistic about what to expect (pay, timeframe, effort etc.). As with DJ'ing or music production, don't get in to it thinking it will make you rich, and let that be your motivation. People see superstar DJ's and producers, with serious wealth and think I want ot have that lifestyle, but every person I know who has made it in the music biz, whether it be film, pop, dance/edm, enginering composition (whatever), would do it for minimum wage again if they had to.

I have to say alot of people have been negative from the start of this thread - maybe becasue some people question your motivation, but all in all, considering any education for a fieled you would like to work in, is commendable - remember one thing no one can ever take education away from you and it's what you rely on for the rest of your life. So if you're serious, go for it. But I know many people who instead of going out in to the world to get some life experience (as I did, to my extreme benefit), went through the standard "university life" and came out with degrees (even from top unis) that meant nothing to them and later found them working in the local convenience store. And these aren't dumb people.

My point is, education has be the means to your eventual goal - I'm not sure wanting to expand the knowledge of your hobby is really clever, if you're thinking of devoting 4 years of your life (and considerable debt) if a hobby is all it's ever realistically going to be.

Do you want ot be a producer or a musician? If it's a producer, then go to school as a engineer/producer - extra curricular music lessons, combined with your existing knowlegde sould be enough. I wouldn't bother with a degree for this though, I didn't and I know a lot of people who have both done degrees in audio engineering/music technology/etc. and they had no professional or academic advantages above those that did good diploma programs from recognised/well known schools.

If it's a musician/composer - go to school, get a degree, from a good uni - the depth of the subject and field relating to your eventual occupation will in some cases , require this level of learning, not to mention the skills they teach you of actually how to learn, whcih in a creative area, is essential.

in terms of schools - the greatest educational experience of my life was the Harris Institute, in Toronto, Canada. I could write enough positives about the level of education I received, to fill this entire forum. I did the producing engineering program, which was a minimum of 40 hours per week, covering ever subject I could think of from Music Management and Contracts, to electronics and live sound. I have taken tours (and known tutors) at SAE (london & LA), Guitar institute (LA), The Los angeles Recording School, Fullsail (FL), as well as various universities in a coule of countries. All of them fell flat compared to Harris, and it even costs a fraction of any of them.

In fact some employers view certain schools (such as SAE) as a potential negative, as they have to churn out students at such a rate and sometimes their level of education is not up to it.

As with all schools you get out what you put in, just make sure that if you go, you absolutely live and breath it, becuase that is what is expected of you in the music industry.

I am lucky enough to be working for a well know studio, with some very talented people, and in all LA, which is the other side of the world from wher I grew up. I took the best part of a decade, and runied my credit history for a while but now it's all good and I'm beginning to be where I want ot be so if you're serious, go for it.

That's really interesting to know! You're post is way more solid.

All of you and your experiences and views are real and counts and means a lot to me! An Audio/Sound Engineering program would be great, but I'm not aware of any school in Ontario that has a program which is government funded. I learned a lot about the pros and cons of my decision by now and I'm greatful to you guys for sharing and enlightening me towards an education. I've already finished a year program on Electrical Pre-Trade since I like working with tools and stuff. It took me a year and half to figure out what to do with my career, I didn't want to end up studying something for a certain period of time and end up doing something for the rest of my life and not enjoying it. My family was against it, for me being an Electrician. Since, it's blue collar. But Hey! blue collar sometime makes more money than white collar. My siblings and my parents are we'll educated and works decent job. I'm just a bit bad ass cause I'm the baby of the family. Right now, I'm thinking for going back to school the get some more background on my Electrical/Technical skills, After a Diploma... hoping to enroll into a Music Program. I think, during the college year.. I'll start to take a few classes on Keyboarding and Guitars and start to wield on my contacts and networks. See, even writing it out here on this forum is making my goal more solid! Thanks a lot guys! I'd love to hear some more personal stories and you'll are more than welcome to share some of your work experiences and tunes with me. I feel lucky somewhat.

Now I have to visit LA since I heard so much about it. Maybe transfer to an institute. Time will tell.

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quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie My pussy is cold, please light my fire.