basically grow some balls

quote:

Originally posted by guerra-monstru basically grow some balls

could've guessed that

quote:

Originally posted by guerra-monstru basically grow some balls

exactly

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a friend of mine let me borrow the game off him a few years ago and i ended up getting fairly involved in it. i believe there is a lot a man can gain from reading this material, but at the same time i think it does have a very damaging side to it, which could easily outweigh the benefits. i have read just about every e-book, watched every video and listened to every mp3, but i was actually very uninvolved in it all and barely applied any of what i had digested. however, i was in a position to observe what was happening in others...




the good:

women have a million different magazines, books and tv shows which draw parallels to these books, yet men have never had such things available to them. every day, i hear of girls breaking up with their asshole boyfriends, only to continually fall back into the same trap and keep complaining that "there are no decent guys out there". there are a lot of decent guys out there, but the harsh reality is that most are socially retarded and get shut down in a heart beat. as such, they never get a fighting chance. likewise, these nice guys let the world walk all over them and it is important for them to learn to stand on their own two feet.

i think the majority of the men that get involved in "the game" are in this category. you could argue that these whinging women should just go for the geeks for a change, but ask yourself, would you? the challenge of taming the beast is most of the fun of relationships, for both men and women. geeks are boring and most women would rather die than be stuck in a daily life of monotony.

the fact that the game gets these men out on the streets and using their vocal chords is fantastic, to say the least. this is 99% of the work in itself.




the bad:

firstly, it is a jungle of bullshit. these self proclaimed "gurus" have a way of weaving simple notions into massive books and long videos, which poor sods pay through the nose for.

"David Deangelo, cocky funny"
women really like confident men who make them laugh? HOLY CRAP WHAT A BREAK THROUGH! sure am glad I found an 80 page book to tell me that...

secondly, many of the techniques are ridiculous. the painful double edge to the proliferation of this "cocky funny" phenomena is that men begin to think they need to be assholes to get women. it's true, it works well, but you aren't being true to yourself. at some point, your facade will fall apart and the girl will realise how much of a retard you really are. likewise, you begin to fall into the misogynistic behaviours. this is not healthy "inner game". the same applies to all the routine based methods. there is no doubt that these things work, but are you developing yourself as a person, or are you just becomming a better actor? likewise, nlp techniques and so forth are some fucked up shit. hypnotism and mind control to score women? think about that for a second... it might work, but how is it going to affect YOU mentally? is it moral to do to others?

thirdly, the biggest downside is that all these methods and techniques do nothing but make you overanalyse every human interaction you have. your will no longer make organic connections with women and it will all become about what stage you're at in your routine, or if youre not being cocky funny enough, or if you need to phase shift etc. in the initial stages this will do nothing but fuck you up. infact, i have seen people's inner game go BACKWARD as a result of being shut down over and over because they can't chill out and be NORMAL.

finally, do you think it is ok? every time you find some new technique or method, ask yourself if you would feel comfortable having a guy use it on your sister. if you don't, i think you have a responsibility to not just boycott it, but to actively oppose it. at this point it is no longer about nice guys trying to get a girlfriend and is all about manipulation and immoral behaviour. there is alot of this going around and does nothing but give the community a bad name.

like i said, there is a lot to be gained and all of the techniques DO work. however, i think you need to take everything you read with a grain of salt and think of the rammifications.





i have discarded almost everything i have read, heard or watched. i'm far from being a wicked awesome ladies man, but here is what i think every guy needs to know, to develop himself and be a good person:

"a rich man doesn't need to tell you he is rich" - be quietly confident in yourself. don't brag and don't try to be arrogant. arrogance is false confidence.

do what you want. if you want to call a girl, you call her because YOU want to. don't think "because david deangelo said it's going to make me look needy i had better not do it"! don't be afraid to do nice things for girls because it makes you look like an "AFC". if you want to do something, you do it. DON'T do things for someone elses acceptance though.

don't pressure yourself to be funny. don't pressure yourself to be interesting. i've tried this and you only come off as a loser. it is much better to have someone else entertain YOU, than to try to get peoples acceptance by doing tricks and routines. pressure yourself to try and get people to show YOU their best side.

slow down. when you're talking to a girl, do everything at half speed. i find this in particular has helped me alot. you'll begin to realise pretty quickly that you actually are a more interesting person than you believe, when you actually slow down and think about what you say.

don't overanalyse. don't go to bed at night thinking "oh my god she said xyz, what does that mean?". this is the shit that lands you in the failzone, fast. no matter how much you try to rationalise the things they do, 90% of the time you are wrong, so don't bother.

talk to people everywhere, not just girls. when you go to the bus stop, make conversation to the old guy sitting there. this will develop your social skills way faster than all this other crap.

don't try to force unnatural interactions. your best place to meet a girl are at school, at work, in clubs/organisations/teams, and through friends. i know hot girls that have had a lot of boyfriends, but not met a single one at a nightclub. don't expect nightclubs to be the be all and end all of your social existence, because it is a fucked up environment and you will rarely meet people worth the effort. likewise, if you don't feel comfortable approaching strangers in the middle of the street, don't do it.

"you miss 100% of the oppourtunities you don't risk taking". this took me a long time to actually accept. you can spend as much time as you like in the gym, hoping that you look so good a girl might approach you one day, but the reality is that the universe is dropping down oppourtunities all around you, you just need to have the balls to make a leap of faith and grab one.

accept that women can be dickheads, but don't become a misogynist. a misogynist is someone who can't handle reality. those who are succesful are the ones that understand how women work and accept it.

understand that everyone wants what they can't have. we all come accross those evangelical dickteases that have the world wrapped around their finger at some point in our life... their arrogance is attractive and, like idiots, it is enough to convince ourselves that they belong on a pedestal. i know this old chestnut inside out. rather than following the trend of most other guys, use your knowledge of this to your benefit and avoid them. they are nothing special. infact, they have a problem and that is that they will always be unhappy in their relationships. these girls NEED a man to treat them like crap, because they want what they can't have too. this legitimises them staying in the relationship, because otherwise, their partner is below their league. you could play into this game, but would you want to?

in my oppinion, this is all we need to know. beyond this, it is just a matter of getting out there and doing it.

Last edited by echosystm on May-14-2008 at 16:02

awesome post man

i was in the same position just a few months ago; cramming my head full of every video/ebook/mp3 i could find. i learned a TON of interesting stuff about societal interactions, and i feel i'm a better person for actually understanding every aspect of a given interaction.

problem was, i was losing a ton of sleep over it. every time i shut my eyes, an endless flood of social information flowed forth and it aggravated me so much that i couldn't just relax my mind.

that being said, over the past year or so after really buckling down and incorporating the information i feel is congruent (omg "congruent" lol) with myself, i've found my interactions with other people improved boundlessly.

however, i still need to clear up some things in my life such as getting a job, a car, and my own place before i can really feel fulfilled enough to make some REAL progress. not having money or a way to get out to social settings really limits my progress in breaking out of the shell society and my family has set on me.

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quote:

Originally posted by echosystm

I think it is true that if you start turning yourself into a "routine machine" and do not actually get the idea behind all this, it can be very damaging.

However, I find that all of these PUA's have something in common. They have used whatever works for them, with their personality and made it work, pretty much adapting these things as a part of their personality, assimilating.

If you just blindly use the techniques they will never work, I find that the smart people who have read this and did get interested into the PUA community did not necesseraliy have to be "social retards" as you call them, some of these books are great psychology books that you can use for yourself.

You are again right, a lot of it is BS, for example using NLP(Neuro-Linguistic Programin) to get girls into bed is wrong. (c0r version = HYPNOSIS)

But my idea behind this post is that you can use all this material to adapt that missing part of the personality into yourself. I find that the best game out there for "day game" is natural. And if you go into a club all the girls out there get hit on a lot so they start using guys giving them compliments to boost their self esteem. Some of these girls are damaged by past relationships, etc etc. And do you really want "damaged goods" for yourself. That's why mystery method works better for night game cause it's pretty much making yourself the entertainer...

But if you have very confident solid natural day game, you have no AA, getting girls in the day time is way simpler and they are generally a lot more mentally healthy then the clubbers:P

Saying this I love daygame

my 2 cents...

quote:

Originally posted by zeKsg I think it is true that if you start turning yourself into a "routine machine" and do not actually get the idea behind all this, it can be very damaging. However, I find that all of these PUA's have something in common. They have used whatever works for them, with their personality and made it work, pretty much adapting these things as a part of their personality, assimilating. If you just blindly use the techniques they will never work, I find that the smart people who have read this and did get interested into the PUA community did not necesseraliy have to be "social retards" as you call them, some of these books are great psychology books that you can use for yourself. You are again right, a lot of it is BS, for example using NLP(Neuro-Linguistic Programin) to get girls into bed is wrong. (c0r version = HYPNOSIS) But my idea behind this post is that you can use all this material to adapt that missing part of the personality into yourself. I find that the best game out there for "day game" is natural. And if you go into a club all the girls out there get hit on a lot so they start using guys giving them compliments to boost their self esteem. Some of these girls are damaged by past relationships, etc etc. And do you really want "damaged goods" for yourself. That's why mystery method works better for night game cause it's pretty much making yourself the entertainer... But if you have very confident solid natural day game, you have no AA, getting girls in the day time is way simpler and they are generally a lot more mentally healthy then the clubbers:P Saying this I love daygame my 2 cents...

personally, i like using NLP after she's already in the bed ;D

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quote:

Originally posted by echosystm the good: women have a million different magazines, books and tv shows which draw parallels to these books, yet men have never had such things available to them. every day, i hear of girls breaking up with their asshole boyfriends, only to continually fall back into the same trap and keep complaining that "there are no decent guys out there". there are a lot of decent guys out there, but the harsh reality is that most are socially retarded and get shut down in a heart beat. as such, they never get a fighting chance. likewise, these nice guys let the world walk all over them and it is important for them to learn to stand on their own two feet. i think the majority of the men that get involved in "the game" are in this category. you could argue that these whinging women should just go for the geeks for a change, but ask yourself, would you? the challenge of taming the beast is most of the fun of relationships, for both men and women. geeks are boring and most women would rather die than be stuck in a daily life of monotony.

Actually, I know attractive girls that decided to settle with geeks for that reason, and not because they're jaded or anything (some of them are actually quite young), but because they know a geek is more likely to treat them well.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm the bad:

I agree with you entirely on this

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm "a rich man doesn't need to tell you he is rich" - be quietly confident in yourself. don't brag and don't try to be arrogant. arrogance is false confidence.

Rather than arrogance, I'd say it's the lack of confidence that often leads to this problem of having a big mouth (well, I do think arrogance is a sign of insecurity anyway ). Once you look at it this way, you'll realise that many guys fail because they think dating is a formal occasion.

Do you ask anyone to be your friend? No, you simply befriend those around you. It took me a while to realise that it was the same with dating - you don't tell women you'd like to date them... you just do

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm do what you want. if you want to call a girl, you call her because YOU want to. don't think "because david deangelo said it's going to make me look needy i had better not do it"! don't be afraid to do nice things for girls because it makes you look like an "AFC". if you want to do something, you do it. DON'T do things for someone elses acceptance though. don't pressure yourself to be funny. don't pressure yourself to be interesting. i've tried this and you only come off as a loser. it is much better to have someone else entertain YOU, than to try to get peoples acceptance by doing tricks and routines. pressure yourself to try and get people to show YOU their best side.

A big plus one on that.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm slow down. when you're talking to a girl, do everything at half speed. i find this in particular has helped me alot. you'll begin to realise pretty quickly that you actually are a more interesting person than you believe, when you actually slow down and think about what you say.

Nice tip, hmm....

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm don't overanalyse. don't go to bed at night thinking "oh my god she said xyz, what does that mean?". this is the shit that lands you in the failzone, fast. no matter how much you try to rationalise the things they do, 90% of the time you are wrong, so don't bother.

My thoughts, exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm accept that women can be dickheads, but don't become a misogynist. a misogynist is someone who can't handle reality. those who are succesful are the ones that understand how women work and accept it.

This has been a concern of mine, halfway through DeAngelo's material. I'm not saying he is a misogynist or anything, but I reckon this whole "women are like this/men are like that" word play leads to the massification of referenced individuals, and that's never a good thing.

I'm a pretty egalitarian person, in the sense that I barely believe the division between genres is a helpful one. So, whenever I hear DeAngelo talking about women, not only it reminds me of some gay friends of mine, but also some guy friends regarding women.

And I wouldn't say this is surprising in any sense.

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Awesome post, echosystm, it's great to have an intelligent "other side" shown in this thread. I do disagree with a couple of things you said, however.

quote:

these self proclaimed "gurus" have a way of weaving simple notions into massive books and long videos, which poor sods pay through the nose for.

When you don't know what to say to a woman and you're a total social failure you NEED long explanations and examples. Just saying "go out there and be yourself" is the worst possible advice you could give to a lovable loser. I was re-reading up on A3 the other day and do you know how many theories and concepts there are? Yes some of it is just icing on a cake but I'd rather have a book with deep explanations than have a pamphlet that leaves me puzzled.

Some of the most useful ideas also take some time to explain due to being so complex. If you're looking to be good and have a a deeper understand long reading hours, videos, mp3's are just necessary. It took me about 2 weeks to learn Push/Pull completely for example. It just wouldn't get through my head. But reading the material (which I think was specifically written to draw other trains of thought to the ideas) made me finally get it.

quote:

thirdly, the biggest downside is that all these methods and techniques do nothing but make you overanalyse every human interaction you have. your will no longer make organic connections with women and it will all become about what stage you're at in your routine, or if youre not being cocky funny enough, or if you need to phase shift etc. in the initial stages this will do nothing but fuck you up. infact, i have seen people's inner game go BACKWARD as a result of being shut down over and over because they can't chill out and be NORMAL

Well if you're just an awkward human being, someone uncomfortable all the time, being NORMAL is never going to get you anywhere. I do agree that rAFC over analyze A LOT and end up becoming social robots, but sometimes it's mostly a phase. I mean, I lost sleep over it right when I found out about it too, but now I'm just working to better myself and not become a totally different person.

Here is Neil on social robots:
http://www.bristollair.com/inner-ga...ial-robots.html

Like zeKsg said it all comes down to how you use the material. If you're smart enough and you can handle it well this can be the biggest gift of all: The ability to successfully interact with anyone and lay/go out with/marry any woman you chose to.

quote:

Actually, I know attractive girls that decided to settle with geeks for that reason, and not because they're jaded or anything (some of them are actually quite young), but because they know a geek is more likely to treat them well.

There is probably something in there you don't know about.

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201

btw, slowing down and speaking loudly is not only a nice tip. it's a KEY tip
at first you'll think you're speaking too slowly and too loudly. that's just because you're not used to it. push your comfort levels. you'll learn to calibrate given certain situations. better to know your limits than to never reach them.

i've slowed down a lot. a lot of n00bs think that OH if i just get this material out as fast as possible, she'll be hooked! nope, if you run it too fast, you risk lowering your value because it subconsciously communicates that you dont know how to hold attention.

try it! it's fun you can actually feel the energy as they anticipate what you're going to say next. haha throw em a curveball too. wait til you get to multiple threading. THAT'S really fun

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quote:

Originally posted by Screen We attract what we think we are. Women, Friends, Activities etc. Our entire life is constructed from what we thought. Can’t meet the right women? Take a very deep introspection. The answer is always there. If you only give a shit about yourself how do you expect a woman to give a shit about you? Two don’t give a shit types of people attract each other. Then your left feeling “Why did she never care about me”? Duh!!, Take a closer look. I guarantee you will be surprised. Like the Pinkbox Special - Simple

Mum, is that you?

Seriously, my mother is exactly like that, heh.

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