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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles It works okay as a melody, I guess. It's ruined for me by the utterly bland and tired arrangement and use of synths and percussion, though. I'd really like to know the thought processes of these people who are still hacking away at the same damn idea after it's been beaten to death for ten years. Are they just so "brainwashed" by soaking themselves in so much of this stuff that they think anything else sounds "unprofessional?" I'm trying to think of an analogy here... It's like a group of painters who found a great painting by Michelangelo -- and then decided to use the exact same colors to paint the exact same subject in almost the exact same way -- again and again -- but with a few slight variations here and there. It just doesn't sound like it could be enjoyable to me. Eh, whatever.

it's more the fact that the kicks/percussion/basslines/accompanying synths serve more of a functional purpose rather than a musical one. the melodies provide the musicality whereas the rest merely provides a template to help it serve its purpose of being an energetic piece of dance music

i'd say your analogy was slightly inaccurate.. the subject would be different each time (well, most times), the style of paint & brushing techniques being the constant. providing the subject could be appreciated at the end, they wouldn't feel the need to change the way they went about putting it there..

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Originally posted by PETRAN Now, sometimes you can't distinquish if an epic-trance tune comes from 2008 or 1998. Well, i guess that the tune that comes from 2008 would have a more clinical, crystal-clear production but other than that, they would sound similar in almost every respect.

i'm gonna call BS on this. the differences are clearly there, although how noticeable they are is obviously a matter of subjectivity..

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Originally posted by Trance-MB Hmmmm, to compare: So rock music also gets ruined because they use electrical guitars for 50 years?

Rock music is not ruined by using the electric guitar for 50 years.

But it would be ruined if every rock artist was trying to imitate Jimi Hendrix in every way except for the specific notes he used.

Uh, yeah guys, Jimi Hendrix was pretty good...but can't you try something a little different?

This is the dynamic you have in anthem trance with all these relentless imitators of the '99 style.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Rock music is not ruined by using the electric guitar for 50 years. But it would be ruined if every rock artist was trying to imitate Jimi Hendrix in every way except for the specific notes he used. Uh, yeah guys, Jimi Hendrix was pretty good...but can't you try something a little different? This is the dynamic you have in anthem trance with all these relentless imitators of the '99 style.

a situation for you to consider..

(this isn't to prove any point at all, i'm just geuinely curious)

lets say you were messing around on a keyboard one day and came up with an original badass sounding melody, which could be considered by many as being quite anthemic. on further playing around you come up with a sublime sounding set of string chords that compliment it perfectly. you're that happy with your creation that you decide to produce a trance track based on it, with a strong desire to emphasise its anthemic qualities..

i'm interested to know what your thought process would be when attempting to develop this idea. would you deliberately attempt to sidestep every known epic trance cliche based on the sole reason that they are cliches? would you be willing to jeapordise the anthemic effect of your creation purely for the sake of deviating from the norm? and just how would you go about doing things differently to the current recognised formula?


some things to consider. i produce epic trance, and alot of my tracks fit the formula you quoted above.. however i don't go out with the express intent of making them sound the same as something else; i just arrange them in the most efficent way i can think of & try to ignore the fact that similar methods have been used before

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Originally posted by PETRAN It is rather usual that some trance tunes are made like 3 years before they get signed. This is a bit strange isn't it?

It is, but I also think a lot changed at the labels and distributors, which can delay things. If distributors don't see money in it, it will not be released regardsless of what the label would like to do. These things happen, unfortunatly. Probably the distributors have to much power.

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Originally posted by isoterra a situation for you to consider.. (this isn't to prove any point at all, i'm just geuinely curious) lets say you were messing around on a keyboard one day and came up with an original badass sounding melody, which could be considered by many as being quite anthemic. on further playing around you come up with a sublime sounding set of string chords that compliment it perfectly. you're that happy with your creation that you decide to produce a trance track based on it, with a strong desire to emphasise its anthemic qualities.. i'm interested to know what your thought process would be when attempting to develop this idea. would you deliberately attempt to sidestep every known epic trance cliche based on the sole reason that they are cliches? would you be willing to jeapordise the anthemic effect of your creation purely for the sake of deviating from the norm? and just how would you go about doing things differently to the current recognised formula?

If I were confident in what I had so far and really thought that the "'99 anthem" style was what fit the track best, then I would go ahead and write it in that style. I wouldn't avoid old techniques simply for the sake of being different if I thought that the track would suffer musically as a result.

I don't have any problem with producers revisiting or rehashing of past styles, as long as it's an occasional thing and they treat the style as one possible color on a many-colored pallet.

But that isn't what I see some people doing. It's the difference between someone who decides to cook pizza for dinner one night and a guy who cooks pizza for dinner every night -- albeit with slightly different toppings each time for the sake of "variation."

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Rock music is not ruined by using the electric guitar for 50 years. But it would be ruined if every rock artist was trying to imitate Jimi Hendrix in every way except for the specific notes he used. Uh, yeah guys, Jimi Hendrix was pretty good...but can't you try something a little different? This is the dynamic you have in anthem trance with all these relentless imitators of the '99 style.

But what if to me there is not difference in electric guitar players? Maybe I don't hear difference between Jimi Hendrix and many others. It sound all the same to me.
Maybe I even all rock sounds similar to me...

... okay it doesn't, but I just took rock as an example.
I also don't like the supersaw all the time.

But this one doesn't have a supersaw, or does it? Still it isn't good enough for many, where I think is fucking great:

Link: Andy Blueman - Time To Rest (Daniel Kandi Bangin Mix)

To me it's different from other tracks, but does have a similar general sound, which I like.

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Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

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Originally posted by Trance-MB But what if to me there is not difference in electric guitar players?

If that's the case, then you're probably deaf or something.

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But this one doesn't have a supersaw, or does it? Still it isn't good enough for many, where I think is fucking great: Link: Andy Blueman - Time To Rest (Daniel Kandi Bangin Mix)

Heh, if you think this doesn't have a supersaw, I'm not sure you know what a supersaw is...

Big supersaw pad in the breakdown, followed by a supersaw lead playing the anthem.

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Originally posted by isoterra a situation for you to consider.. (this isn't to prove any point at all, i'm just geuinely curious) lets say you were messing around on a keyboard one day and came up with an original badass sounding melody, which could be considered by many as being quite anthemic. on further playing around you come up with a sublime sounding set of string chords that compliment it perfectly. you're that happy with your creation that you decide to produce a trance track based on it, with a strong desire to emphasise its anthemic qualities.. i'm interested to know what your thought process would be when attempting to develop this idea. would you deliberately attempt to sidestep every known epic trance cliche based on the sole reason that they are cliches? would you be willing to jeapordise the anthemic effect of your creation purely for the sake of deviating from the norm? and just how would you go about doing things differently to the current recognised formula? some things to consider. i produce epic trance, and alot of my tracks fit the formula you quoted above.. however i don't go out with the express intent of making them sound the same as something else; i just arrange them in the most efficent way i can think of & try to ignore the fact that similar methods have been used before

Hmmm, and i guess that it applies to all music. Favorite "X" band/musician/producer of "Y" band/musician/producer has a specific sound, which "Y" band/musician/producer wants to immitate. When "Y" musician achieves a similar result, he/she/they feel excited about his/her/their accomplishment in creating something similar to their raw models, and hence he/she/they become part of the genre.


Problem is that rock-bands musicians often make albums not just single/anthems. In simple terms they compose a lot of tunes, they probably keep the best of these tunes for their albums, their album will not get lost in a sea of releases and as a result will receive a lot of reviewing, appraisal and criticism by the journalistic world, which will feed-back o the rock musician, making him more "professional" and hence highly motivated and "serious" with regards to him/her music . These aspects (together with some others such as the fact that rock-musicians would perform live gigs, playing just their own sound to his/her/their fans) would possibly provide a more dynamic musical evolution of the band/rock-musician. This is why, whilst most rock genres/subgenres have a similar structure, you still get enough variation, even between bands which belong to the same (sub-)genre.


This is not happening with trance in which everyone is about the new "anthems". Due to the very nature of the genre, you can get many one- (or even two- or three-) hit wonders, but no serious motivated professional musicians who "live their musical career" much more and in more dynamic and full ways. As a result, you get these one- (ot two- or three-) hit wonders doing the copy-cat big sound before fading into oblivion. That is, the very nature of the genre encourages to copy and not to develop.

It is only some of the trance's "bigger", more serious trance producers such as M.I.K.E or Laurent who possibly have their own more distinct sound and try to stretch their talent and limits in more than the "lets come with another anthem" ways. I'm not saying that you or all other young epic-trance producers are motivated to come with another anthem just for the purpose of creating one. You can be dead-honest with your music.I'm only saying that you, or any other young epic-trance producer, tries to get "inspired" by his favorite names/styles of music (like every musician does in the beginning of their musical career),so he/she eventually comes with one or two big tunes, but unfortunately, due to the reasons mentioned before (the nature of anthem-trance in pushing anthems rather than albums, or a substantial quantity of tunes in general, and hence the overall low exposure of a musician's sound and the overall low motivation and seriousness that accompanies it), fails to develop seriously into a full-blown musician with his/her own distinct sound.
So, the scene eventually settles in a state, where you get a lot of similar-sounding big-tunes coming from lots of different people, geting played by very few big names. IMO, the state of trance now.

Last edited by PETRAN on May-17-2008 at 23:25

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Originally posted by PETRAN Problem is that rock-bands musicians often make albums not just single/anthems. In simple terms they compose a lot of tunes, they probably keep the best of these tunes for their albums, their album will not get lost in a sea of releases and as a result will receive a lot of reviewing, appraisal and criticism by the journalistic world, which will feed-back o the rock musician, making him more "professional" and hence highly motivated and "serious" with regards to him/her music . These aspects (together with some others such as the fact that rock-musicians would perform live gigs, playing just their own sound to his/her/their fans) would possibly provide a more dynamic musical evolution of the band/rock-musician. This is why, whilst most rock genres/subgenres have a similar structure, you still get enough variation, even between bands which belong to the same (sub-)genre.

Right? So all electronic albums are crap? There are tons of albums that are like hat too in edm.

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter Right? So all electronic albums are crap? There are tons of albums that are like hat too in edm.

Yeah i know, i was talking about what is usually happening with the majority of epic-trance musicians.