yea, i do think something needs to be done about the pollution issues...
the US needs to really start changing it's enviromental policies.

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Originally posted by Juricimo this one is gonna be hard. afganistan has been found to harbor terrorists. terrorists = bad. this is not a war against Afganistan, but a war against terrorism. Osama was not the only terrorist, but there are numerous terrorsts cells all over the world. Osama to my understanding is one of the terrorist leaders, with many others situated in the area of Afganistan. hence, the war to rid of the terrorists. yes, innocent ppl will die, that comes along with any war,....innocent ppl dying is not right. Effort to rid Afganistan, sourrounding areas and any other areas of the world of terrorists and their terrorist acts with hopefully end up in a result that will provide the Afgan people more quality and a better, secure life, as well as the same to everyone else on Earth. >JM<

as for the war in afghanistan.... it's just another way for the US to strengthen their ties with the surround countries in an effort to have part in the natural resources there...
There are large amounts of oil and gas reserves in that region.
So basically, the events of 9/11 gave the US an excuse to go into that country and make friendships with the surrounding countries.
Another effort to take control over natural resources, just like the persian war.

why doesn't the US first get rid of the terrorists in america itself.
and I'm refering to american terrorists...

I have one question tho, why is the US soo concerned about other countries having 'weapons of mass-desctruction' when it create as many as it wants...

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Originally posted by Tranex02 as for the war in afghanistan.... it's just another way for the US to strengthen their ties with the surround countries in an effort to have part in the natural resources there...

do you fail to realize some things??? The country of Afganistan was pretty much led by terrorists themselves... that's not too good, considering the side effects of that.

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why doesn't the US first get rid of the terrorists in america itself. and I'm refering to american terrorists...

What the hell?!?!?! Are you telling me the the US should sit quietly and leave the organized terrorists cells alone to do and blow up whatever they want????

American terrorists???? havent heard about too many of those. of course there are exceptions, unibomber, oklahoma city bomber, but they got dealt with. The terrorists in the US usually come to America from other places, like the fools that got issued visas to come to the USA and fly the planes into the heart of NYC.

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I have one question tho, why is the US soo concerned about other countries having 'weapons of mass-desctruction' when it create as many as it wants...

huh??? because "other" countries might just wanna use them to blow up stuff whenever they want. And if they blow up anything that threatens USA, American lives, or other things that are of interest and importance to the US, the US might as well use their 50ft "bunker busters" to take care that such will not happen again.

>JM<

Last edited by JM on May-23-2002 at 01:59

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Originally posted by JohnSmith *sigh* I really like you juricimo, i hope this doesn't sour our relationship together. i told you not to make me prove it. BUT, your president, George Bush, arguably the most powerful man on the planet, is an idiot. He has people write his speeches for him, but really, he's not even bright enough to read them properly. he has phonetic pronunciations on there. he pulled out of the kyoto protocol, so he could appease his rich oil buddies down in texas. selling out your future, increasing global warming he bombed the shit out of a defensless country trying to get one man, who he is pretty sure committed the horrible attacks of septemeber 11th. now, thousands of innocent afghanis, including women and children are dead, and osama is nowhere to be found. his troops even bombed 4 canadian soldiers to death. now, i know that's not his fault directly, but.. i digress. he did NOT even win the election, he is an illegitmate president. He is as corrupt as they come, financed by tobbaco, oil, and pharmaceutical companies. He is merely a puppet for their global corporate power. now, those are all the serious reasons. if you want some funny ones, check out this site: http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/ now, please don't think i hate all americans, i don't. but i think your president needs to get his army the hell out of afghanistan. that is all.

wow john i can really relate to pretty much every u have said in this entire thread. You truly do care for the environment and this planet, and with other issues around the globe, and as well as this you back up what u say with some well thought out and insightful views. Keep up the good work buddy.

peace

mikey

Don't get me wrong Juricimo.

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Originally posted by Juricimo do you fail to realize some things??? The country of Afganistan was pretty much led by terrorists themselves... that's not too good, considering the side effects of that.

I already know that!! duh.... i was simply showing the other side of the issue....

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Originally posted by Juricimo What the hell?!?!?! Are you telling me the the US should sit quietly and leave the organized terrorists cells alone to do and blow up whatever they want????

I never said that, i'm saying that the US shouldn't just pretend that the source of terror is only overseas....but that it needs to be also stoped here...
C'mon Juricimo, u trying to make me sound stupid.

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Originally posted by Juricimo American terrorists???? havent heard about too many of those. of course there are exceptions, unibomber, oklahoma city bomber, but they got dealt with. The terrorists in the US usually come to America from other places, like the fools that got issued visas to come to the USA and fly the planes into the heart of NYC.

what!! There are lots of Anti-gov't groups and people here... don't they count?

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Originally posted by Juricimo huh??? because "other" countries might just wanna use them to blow up stuff whenever they want. And if they blow up anything that threatens USA, American lives, or other things that are of interest and importance to the US, the US might as well use their 50ft "bunker busters" to take care that such will not happen again.

Well, aside from the countries like Iraq that we all already know is a hazard, how can the US decide who can keep such weapons, and who can't.

Juricimo, don't let your deffensiveness mis-interpret what i'm saying...

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Originally posted by Juricimo i'm not too up to date with the kyoto protocol, but i will comment on the global warming issue. there have been fluctuations in temps on planet earth for millions of years now, upward trends, then downward trends. the trend we are in now, could very easily be an upward trend, maybe/maybe not having to do with the greenhouse effect....still a theory. >JM<

Ok , what you say about global warming is kinda accurate, yet you dont know what really is happening with Global Warming. Japan, is the leading country reducing the amount of pollutants , and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, while the United States is the WORST country making the most damage, european countries are indeed helping with the situation, whereas Bill Clinton actually signed in order to help with the Global Warming situation, he told american car companies to actually make cars that would be not as bad for the environment, and at the time, fuel efficient, the same went to the industried. OK, I dont want to get out of topic. When Bush was doing the candidate thing with Gore, Al Gore clearly said that the Global Warming is scientifically proven, and that its actually happening. Deforestation , Carbon Dioxide, pollutants, all are part of thise effect.. THE GREENHOUSE effect. While Bush, all he said is , well, Global Warming is a theory, there is no prove of that, and he seemed not to have a clue about it. And him getting off the Kyoto protocol is a proof of his low knowledge about it. Global Warming will be the biggest issue to come, and to prove its happening , even worst, if you didint know, in Antartica, this year.. 3 Pieces of icebergs, one the size of the state of Delaware, the others are as big as 15 miles .. and 6 miles wide.. never seen before , and its said to be the beggining of the ICEBERGS melting, which will cause Islands to dissapear, erosion, and the danger of loosingthe part of majoe beaches and ports.. BUSH wants to explore and escavate the last natural resources that exists, and wnats to destroy many such as the Alaskan state ( where he wants to escavate for petroleum .. CHENEY and his other buddies are all petroleum owners.. come on BUUUUUUUUUSH ! now ... this is just part of , one of the stupidest things that bush has in mind and done.

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike wow john i can really relate to pretty much every u have said in this entire thread. You truly do care for the environment and this planet, and with other issues around the globe, and as well as this you back up what u say with some well thought out and insightful views. Keep up the good work buddy. peace mikey

:-)

thanks buddy, that means a lot. By the way, my name is not john. I picked an anonymous name, because i don't want people to be able to find me. I once aired some anti american views on other websites, and i recieved death threats, hate mail, and general animosity from the entire forum. so, now, i am as anonymous as i can be.

but, my views are still my views, and the views of many others.

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Originally posted by LiquidX BUSH wants to explore and escavate the last natural resources that exists, and wnats to destroy many such as the Alaskan state ( where he wants to escavate for petroleum ..

i soooo disagree with digging for oil in Alaska! that amount of oil will make so little difference, that it wont even matter, yet on the other hand, the consequences will be severe...although i dont really think that Bush has any intent of destroying the environment, just consuming the resources available....

>JM<

OKee Dokee..

global warming, is NOT a theory, it's a fact.



quick search on google found me that. the planet is getting hotter, the ice caps are melting, the ozone is eroding.

This graph is not even that scary. i have seen worse ones with sharper curves, where the scale is different. this one only starts at 1880. if you look back farther, you will see that it remained almost virtually unchanged for THOUSANDS of years. it was human beings that did this. this is not a natural occurence, it is a SHARP increase, DIRECTLY corresponding to the industrial revolution, and subsequent burning of fossil fuels, producing carbon dioxide.

here is another one, showing carbon dioxide related to temperature



are you scared yet? do you realize that YOUR children won't be able to go play in the sun, because it will burn them badly within minutes?

the ozone layer protects us from the harmful rays of the sun, and we ate it away with too much aersol and burnt fossil fuels.

OH yeah, did i mention that even IF we stopped now, there will still be damage to the ozone to occur, from all the pollutants that have not yet reached the upper atmosphere?

and the worst part? i don't think bush is dumb enough not to know this. he knows. he just doesn't care. he wants the money.

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Originally posted by JohnSmith :-) By the way, my name is not john. I picked an anonymous name, because i don't want people to be able to find me. I once aired some anti american views on other websites, and i recieved death threats, hate mail, and general animosity from the entire forum. so, now, i am as anonymous as i can be. but, my views are still my views, and the views of many others.

i know who you are

shit,...death threats....that's going waaay too far.
damm, you do have a very strong opinion though, and i can see how ppl would very easily get pissed off...

by the way, the graphs above only show trends from the past few centuries. when i said trends, i meant trends that date back millions of years, that scientists measured doing whatever rock carbon 14 or whatever way of measuring they used. but if those graphs are for real, then yeh.....looks pretty alarming.

>JM<

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Originally posted by Juricimo i know who you are >JM<

yes i know you do. thanks for keeping it secret. if someone really wanted to figure it out, they could, but i like to make it as hard as possible.

As for america, war, and terrorism..

the CIA TRAINED osama, and members of al-qaeda, to help fight the russians in the cold war.

they have a school for TRAINING terrorists:
http://www.soaw.org/

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The US Army School of Americas (SOA), based in Fort Benning, Georgia, trains Latin American soldiers in combat, counter-insurgency, and counter-narcotics. Graduates of the SOA are responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses in Latin America. Among the SOA's nearly 60,000 graduates are notorious dictators Manuel Noriega and Omar Torrijos of Panama, Leopoldo Galtieri and Roberto Viola of Argentina, Juan Velasco Alvarado of Peru, Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, and Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia. Lower-level SOA graduates have participated in human rights abuses that include the assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the El Mozote Massacre of 900 civilians.

America, while campaiging against weapons of mass destruction, posseses the worlds LARGEST collection of them. this is publicly known and acknowledged, i only wonder what they are hiding in addition to their public arsenal.

America is the ultimate rogue state, they ignore the UN when they see fit, and pull diplomatic strings to influence policys when they need to. the same with NATO, it is owned by the USA.

America has been involved in countless military operations, that they had no business in. This is why the events of september 11th happened. It is american foreign policy that compelled those people to do what they did.

I don't think it's right, nor justified. I think those terrorist's should be hunted down and killed.

However, i do NOT believe that the war in afghanistan should continue. it has been over 10 months. THere is nothing left to bomb the country is in ruins. Osama and his second in command are nowhere to be found.

*sigh* sorry juricimo. i told you not to make me prove it.

Juricimo, correct me if i'm wrong.

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