quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 While I agree with you on most instances, I'm going to have to disagree with you on a couple of others. Unfortunately I don't have the time I once did to research things to support myself better, so I'll have to resort to personal, anecdotal instances instead. So take them with a grain of salt. For the most part, I agree (with you). Very much agree. Don't know much about this one.

Yeah, you're right about that one... so far you are, and hopefully that won't change soon either:

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Patriot Act 2 not only fails to fix this definition, it exacerbates these problems by hinging even more anti-terrorism powers to this definition. These include new wiretapping authority (secs. 120, 121), civil asset forfeiture powers (sec. 427, 428), new death penalties (sec. 411), and a frightening and unprecedented power for the government to revoke American citizenship even of native-born Americans (sec. 501).

Source: ACLU

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Very much agree. Agree again Agree. Agree (what a fucking mess we've created with this one especially). Part 2 on the SSCI Report is finally out (no thanks to my Senator Roberts who sat on it for years when he was Chair), and is yet another piece of evidence on http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/w...&hp&oref=slogin Don't know much about this one either.

tranceaddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Hallibutron Concentration Camps

Halliburton "detainment centers" : Source: NYTimes ...check

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Are you referring to police check points or military check points? I'm not a major fan of either myself, but I'll support anything that helps getting a drunk driver off the fucking road before they cause harm to someone else. On a personal note, almost 5 years ago a check point was supposed to go up on a road in my town but was called off because a major fire broke out in an apartment building. That check point that would have gone up would have stopped the fucking drunk driving little 19 year old bitch that nailed my wife right in front of me as I was following her home from watching our friend play at a coffee shop. The girl had ran her stop sign and crossed the intersection where my wife's car was in the middle of, and subsequently my wife got T-boned and had her pelvis literally shattered. And I saw the whole thing in my car behind her. Two surgeries involving a metal plate and 19 screws, $95,000 in bills, 3 months of physical therapy later, she recovered well and has been doing terrific since. But I guess I don't mind the drinking and driving check points as much anymore. In the grand scheme of things that cops could or should be doing in order to "protect and serve" us, a cop stopping cars at a check point in a college town where I'd guess probably 1 out of 4-5 cars has a drunk driver on Thurs.-Sat. nights doesn't really get my panties bunched up as much as it used to. In regards to tasing, I have a couple of policemen as patients that I'm working with for various problems (one has epicondylitis in his elbow, the other has a torn hamstring from running after a perp). We've discussed the tasers at length, and the conclusion I've drawn so far is that neither one of them really like them much at all. In fact one of them says he can pretty much do the things he needs to without using it. However, he understands that there are instances to which they are vital to protection. And unfortunately, from the many hundreds to thousands of instances to which they've been used for in a positive manner for protection, the instances that are thrown out to the public in the news and on YouTube are the exceptionally few instances of abuse. And some of those instances of supposed abuse are even a matter of interpretation to which have been thrown out of court. So for me personally, I haven't seen enough evidence to say we should get rid of them altogether, at least not yet. As for your list here, as pkcRAISTLIN had mentioned you seemed to be attempting to connect what this Administration has created with it's foreign and military policies versus the domestic judiciary branch that entails the attempts of the local police to uphold the law by protecting the citizens from lawbreakers. I understand your reply (somewhat) about a frame of reference to which both instances you describe fit in, however doing so creates a bit of an illusionary connection between the two, IMO. What is occurring in one particular branch of the government does not equate to ALL the remaining branches of government are under the same occurrence of events. If you were not trying to make that connection, that's fine despite it appearing that way. If you were more or less making a larger point about authoritarianism without trying to make that connection, that's fine. If, however, you were attempting to make a connection, I'm afraid you'll have to be a bit more convincing, at least to me. I don't know exactly what to think about authoritarianism as a whole. I think on the grand scheme of things what our country has personally compared to most is pretty good, but things have definitely changed over the past 7-8 years thanks in large part to this Administration's philosophy (Yoo doctrine, neoconservatism, Cheney's influence, etc.). Shades of gray tend to add up over time, but layer those shades on slowly, one by one and it becomes difficult to determine just how much different things have changed in the short term at all. Then you have to add in our society's supposed "watch dog" branch, the media, who's been horribly complicit with so much of the propaganda: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/w...20generals.html and you've really got to question just how far we've come. In our minds, at least in my mind we've unfortunately gone down the slippery slope way too far, and the backdrop of terrorists coming to take away our "freedom and liberties" has unfortunately enabled this to happen that much more easier. The irony that we are slowly doing to ourselves what we supposedly feared that the terrorists would be doing to us cannot be missed, which of course rightly puts into question who exactly is behind giving us this fear of all things surrounding us in the first place. Are we as bad off as many other places in the world? Hardly. But since we are supposedly a leader of the free world, I would not want any country to emulate our actions as a leader that we have taken over the last 7 years like the ones you've mentioned in that list of grievances above.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Woman being tased while restrained on ground:

I am thinking that she deserved the tase. Had this been in mexico they would have beaten her with batons. Also, you notice how the crowd yells, "fuck the pigs" well something tells me the people were not good people in general.

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Originally posted by guerra-monstru I am thinking that she deserved the tase. Had this been in mexico they would have beaten her with batons. Also, you notice how the crowd yells, "fuck the pigs" well something tells me the people were not good people in general.

Well thats Mehico sparky... That is a deplorable act of police force.
Maybe you people down there accept that type of shit, but not here...

This video sickens me..
Reminds me of my stand off with the cops during a KKK rally here in Austin. They were protecting them from US and damn near got sprayed in the eyes....


fuck that.... Thanks Z, now I am pissed off and remember why I hate what this Nation's Police Force has become....and we ain't seen shit yet..

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium [IMG]http://www.magnetonium.com/photos/politics/to_serve_protect_taser.jpg[IMG]

Never seen a two door police car!

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Generally the best debates come from when people debate the side they don't beleive in.

shaolin_Z I'd like to see all of the stuff you can muster on why we need more authoritarian measures, including incedents where police are brutally assulted or save innocents through use of either tasers or non-violent means. You sould pay speciall attention to Kent State and other civil disturbances around the world where police of the day used bullets instead of tasers to fram your argument.

Q5echo - I'd like to see you post about all the nastyness that cops do, including using thier authority to gain sexual favours from civilians. And remember, the cleaner the victims the more points you score. Double that amount if you can get shots of cops beating down people in pin stripe suits.

quote:

Originally posted by guerra-monstru

It would probably help if you post the story..

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Videotape Shows Officer Shoving Cyclist By Jonathan Dienst POSTED: 5:49 pm EDT July 28, 2008 UPDATED: 12:45 pm EDT July 29, 2008 NEW YORK -- The NYPD has disciplined a Midtown police officer who had arrested a bicyclist he appears to have knocked to the ground, according to a videotape of the incident released Monday. The videotape has raised concerns about the officer's sworn account that the bicyclist deliberately drove into him last Friday evening during a Critical Mass bicycle ride in Times Square, a source said. After the videotape surfaced, the NYPD took away police officer Patrick Pogan's badge and gun, temporarily placing him on desk duty. The Manhattan District Attorney also announced that it was investigating the incident. In a criminal complaint, Pogan accuses bicyclist Christopher Long of steering into him, the impact flinging Pogan to the ground and causing cuts on his forearms. However on the video, shot by a bystander, it appears as if Pogan is the aggressor who with both hands shoves the 29-year-old Long off his bicycle as he traveled down Seventh Avenue by 46th Street about 8:30 p.m. July 25th. The videotape shows that Long hit the ground but doesn't show Pogan thrown off his feet. Police arrested Long, charging him with attempted assault, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct -- charges that now are under scrutiny given the videotape, a source said. "The officer has been placed on modified assignment pending further investigation of the incident," said Paul Browne, the NYPD's spokesman. The Patrolmen's Benevolent Association declined comment. Long declined comment but a Critical Mass supporter said confrontations like these are common between police and bicyclists. At their monthly bicycle rides, Critical Mass has at times been accused of blocking traffic and causing disruptions to promote "non-polluting transportation." "I was just horrified, you see the police officer knocking the cyclist off his bicycle" said Judy Ross of Time's Up!, a promoter for Critical Mass. However a former NYPD official said the videotape may not tell the whole story. "You can't see what the bicyclist is doing as he approaches the officer, other than he is coming close to the officer," said security consultant Thomas Ruskin, president of the CMP Group. http://www.wnbc.com/investigations/17018177/detail.html

This cop should be fired....

Somebody kill these fucking pigs:

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

My dream is to go out on a nice cop killing spree when I'm like 85 years old.

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I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by atbell Generally the best debates come from when people debate the side they don't beleive in.

Yes, I know. I'm not new to parliamentary style debating.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller