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Originally posted by Subtle In my opinion, the most important skill you need as a producer, is to know when to ditch a sound or not.

so true, learn to know when a sound just isnt working and ditch it straight away, or even if the whole track isnt working or sections of it - scrap it - start again

the amount of times ive tried to save tracks or try to make samples fit and the time i wasted

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Unless you're really dead set on making a living out of production, these days I would worry less about whether your tracks are "label-worthy" then whether they're "DJ-worthy." Have DJs contacted you wanting to play your tracks and played them out to a crowd? With the Internet, anybody can get your track and play it out now as long as you offer it to them.

As long as people are listening, dancing, and having a good time to your tracks, what else really matters?

Unless you're intent on being the next Oakenfold or something...

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Unless you're really dead set on making a living out of production, these days I would worry less about whether your tracks are "label-worthy" then whether they're "DJ-worthy." Have DJs contacted you wanting to play your tracks and played them out to a crowd? With the Internet, anybody can get your track and play it out now as long as you offer it to them. As long as people are listening, dancing, and having a good time to your tracks, what else really matters? Unless you're intent on being the next Oakenfold or something...

Well I'm not sure if you can really understand or not.

Buts it like everytime I sit in my studio people are ALWAYS asking
"When the hell are you gonna sell something?"
and I'll say "When I care about selling something"

Them - "Well why do you waste all this time playing on the computer than?"
Me - "Cause I like it, why do you waste time asking all these stupid fucking questions?"

Them - "Wow, thats a cool beat.. when you gonna start a new one? (implying I'm always starting new shit which I do).

Its like I think I need to accomplish something so they understand my motivation and leave me alone.

Does anyone else have this problem?
People look at me when I'm producing and see the same thing as someone who moves to Hollywood to "make it big" acting or w/e but will prob never make it.

I'm not trying to "make it".
If people see you working for something, and not getting paid, its funny how confused they get.
Kinda like when I see a volunteer firefighter, I think "why not save lives in a different way but get a check for it?"

So yeh, guess I'm letting other people fuck my priorities up.
W/e the case, XIOSYNTH is on its way!!!!! woot woot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait.

double

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox People look at me when I'm producing and see the same thing as someone who moves to Hollywood to "make it big" acting or w/e but will prob never make it. I'm not trying to "make it". If people see you working for something, and not getting paid, its funny how confused they get.

Well, I can't say I have that problem.

The people who know that I produce know I do it because creating music and sound is one of the most enjoyable activities I've ever found, I basically never get tired of it, and it's also a great feeling when I show people something I've made and they like it, too.

Same reason a lot of people draw in their spare time: the pleasure of the creative process and of sharing your creations with other people.

I don't think it's that hard to understand or explain, unless maybe you're talking to people who have never in their life had fun making something.

Its easy to get caught up and believe your music is worthy label but a reality check is always a good first step and by posting up a sample of your track, you are doing the right thing. Once you get to the point where you feel you are ready, just start sending out demos to labels. For many years I sent out demos with no response and its frustrationg but never give up. I slowly got better and better and eventually, it happened. Best of luck...

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DJ Robby Rox - the people who say you're "wasting your time" by working on your music, are they living productive, passionate lives? Are they dedicating years of their life to something meaningful? Some people expect immediate results - "6 minute abs", fast food, what have you - they want everything right now and have never come across the concept of dedicating themselves to something, where for the first few years not much appears to happen, though in fact an incredible amount is happening (as long as they are committed to improving every day). The person then has the ability to create beautiful music, and produce it consistently. There are no shortcuts, no "tricks", no "secrets", no "make my music good" plugins. Simply good musical skills, good production skills, good engineering skills. These skills grow, day by day, year by year.

If the people in your life don't love and support you, find people who will. I'd rather be by myself, working away, than spending time with a person who doesn't appreciate that there are things I want to do with my life.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Well I'm not sure if you can really understand or not. Buts it like everytime I sit in my studio people are ALWAYS asking "When the hell are you gonna sell something?" and I'll say "When I care about selling something" Them - "Well why do you waste all this time playing on the computer than?" Me - "Cause I like it, why do you waste time asking all these stupid fucking questions?" Them - "Wow, thats a cool beat.. when you gonna start a new one? (implying I'm always starting new shit which I do).

Who are these people offering the advice? Someone told me awhile back: "I take advice from people that have what I want. If I want religion, I'm not getting advice from an atheist. If I want to be rich, I'm not taking advice from a broke ass." Not sure who the folks bugging you about this shit are, but don't live by other people's expectations. I'm perfectly content with having spent tens of thousands of dollars on my studio and not making a dime. It's worth it to me, I love doing it, and I can. Don't let these clowns take you down the wrong road or let you forget why you started doing this in the first place.

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Originally posted by Ray_Chappell I'm perfectly content with having spent tens of thousands of dollars on my studio and not making a dime. It's worth it to me, I love doing it, and I can.

Same here. Actually, I'm in the middle of contracting my first song and, honestly, I've got mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it's pretty cool knowing that all of our hard work is being recognized by a label and will (hopefully) reach a much broader audience (yeah - more myspace friends!). But on the other hand, I feel like I'm losing ownership of something that I spent many months and late nights laboring over, simply for my own personal enjoyment and satisfaction.

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Cryophonik, it's only one song. You have many more fantastic songs in you. It is a hassle to let one go, to lose control over it, but it's well worth it if it results in your track reaching a lot more listeners than it otherwise would have, if it results in building your profile.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I like the fact that they accentuate all of the highest, mid and low frequencies but I also know why this can present an issue producing.

If your speakers are "accentuating" all three frequency bands, are they really accentuating anything at all (i.e. how can something be accentuated if it is not contrasting with something else)? In any case, ideally your monitors would not be accentuating anything. A flat, representative response is what is desirable, not one that emphasizes this frequency or that. I know studio caliber monitors are not necessarily affordable, so sometimes the best you can do is learn the biases of your setup and try to compensate as best you can.

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And one thing I should note, theres not a single limiter on any channel but there is a compressor on most, except the master.

If you did not insert a limiter on any channel or the master bus, I would say with 99.9% certainty that your sequencer limits the signal to 0 dB upon rendering. Whether you are aware of it or not, something is capping your output at 0 dB (which is what you want, but YOU should be the one in control of how much limiting is applied). This unexpected limiting is also probably making it more difficult to get your levels balanced, because altering one track is going to modulate the other track levels as the limiter is pushed more or less. It would probably make your life easier to get the master bus peaking well below 0 dB and then adjust your levels to taste. That way you would not have the limiter skewing your perception as you mix.

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First the higher frequencies (on both my speakers and headphones) irritate my ears after looping my synth lines for a few hours to the point where I lower them on the equals till its bearable. So I'm probably over equalizing them, but when I don't they sound to screachy.. almost like nails on glass.

Well that explains the bass bias. Sounds like a monitor issue or a room issue. Do commercial tracks sound similarly screechy when played on the same setup?

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Also, the kicks on most pro tracks are always around twice as loud as mine (not on the DAW's db meters but after I render my tracks I find myself turning the volume to 80 on my system while the pro tracks sound the same around 40-50) so I'm always struggling to compress, equal and boost my kicks so that after I render I can match quality tracks.

My best guess would be that your kicks are too bassy. There is close to an inverse relationship between frequency and loudness, so the more bass your kick has, the softer it is going to sound (all else being equal). You may not like a kick with a healthy dose of mids or highs, but those higher frequencies do provide a greater sense of loudness than if they were not there. Also, overcompression can also harm your apparent loudness, especially it the compression is clamping down on the transients of your kick. Make sure you give your compressor a long enough attack for the initial transient to breathe.

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Even after all this I'm still real low. I've tried everything (even new/better samples and a compressor on the master doesn't change it) but I'm never up to par. The db output on FL's meter always reads around 0 when I render (on the kick channel) so I have to be missing something important, logically I can't understand what.

Maybe this is subjective, but having any single channel peaking at 0 dB is not a good idea in my book. Why? Because if a single channel is peaking at 0 dB, then when it is summed with the rest of the tracks you are guaranteed to go well over 0 dB, meaning you are going to have to limit the master output out of necessity whether you want to or not. If you are compressing your kick AND it is peaking at 0 dB (and who knows how much limiting is being applied to keep it there), then it's no surprise that your kick doesn't sound loud and punchy. It may be too late to remedy the situation for this track (unless you really want to go back and re-mix the song from scratch), but in the future try mixing your tracks at lower levels so you have some headroom to work with. A good rule of thumb that someone else once shared and seems to work alright for me is to have your kick peaking somewhere around -8 dB or -7 dB. If this sounds too quiet, then just crank up the output on your speakers or in your soundcard's mixing panel until it sounds comfortable. Then you can mix all the other tracks in reference to the kick and still keep everything under 0 dB (or very nearly so). Once everything is mixed to taste, THEN you can try compressing and/or limiting the master bus as you deem fit.

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If I make the percs any louder I'll drown the synth line and if I raise the synth line I'll drown the percs lol. Towards the end you can hear the percs drowing out the last note of the melody so its a tough call.

This is probably a byproduct of the unintentional limiting described above. By the end of the production you had no headroom to speak of, so changing the level of one track invariably altered the levels of the other tracks, and in a way that you had very limited (if any) control over. Just make sure your levels inside the sequencer stay below 0 dB and crank up your speaker volume if need be (to comfortable listening level, not too loud).

As you can see, there are quite a few things you can be doing to help give yourself a fairer shot at a successful mix from the get-go. Your current situation sounds a bit like trying to mix with one hand tied behind your back (so to speak). A proper monitoring environment (speakers, room) and a few decent rule-of-thumb mixing practices may go a long way toward helping you achieve your desired sound. You can try to salvage this mix if you like, but I'd recommend proceeding to your next project and applying what you've learned, then comparing the outcomes. With any luck, your next song will be that much better because of what you've learned from this one.