so you think that because there is currently a decline in the violence in Iraq (yet a significant increase in Afghanistan) that the siutation there is a success? Wow man, you're pretty naive just like the rest of the right wingers in your country. Last time I checked over 4,000 troops have been killed in Iraq and that's going to continue no matter how much fucking spin you put on it.

And you think that because there have been no terrorist attacks on American soil since September 11th is the most important reason as to why Republicans should remain in power? Do you REALLY think that Bush did ANY better than say, Al Gore would have? September 11th, the biggest terrorist attack in your history, happened DURING Bush's administration but he receives no blame?

The gap between the rich and poor is increasing in your country. Do you really think there's a middle class anymore? The United States is much more of a have and have not country than Canada or any European nation. Please explain to me how Bush's massive tax cuts to corporations have done anything positive for the American economy during his tenure?

Do you really want to get into a discussion the Republican's strategy to deal with the environment? Bush, McCain (even Stephen Harper here in Canada) are all fucking clueless when it comes to doing anything remotely positive to tackle global warming.

Bush has pretty much taken a very successful and progressive American economy that was left for him by Clinton and run it into the ground. And it's only going to get worse if you elect that 71 year old fossil who will do nothing but maintain the status quo.

The United States used to be a country of change, evolution, vision and idealism. I really don't see too much of that anymore. The American empire is on its way out whether we like it or not. I'd rather have a fresh take on things if I were American.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Why is it so easy? What is it about Obama that is so appealing to you as a foreigner... other than his lofty speeches and promises to save the world from itself? Tell me exactly what policies he stands for, and evidence based on his political experience and voting record that makes it such an easy choice?

As for foreign policy, the willingness to engage in talks with other nations? Cooperation rather than unilateralism? Those might definitely be the most important issues. But he's a guy with a good judgment, knowledge, understanding, and charisma, which would make a huge difference.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew But he's a guy with a good judgment, knowledge, understanding, and charisma, which would make a huge difference.

no. he appears that way to you.

almost half of the electorate in this country, to them, he doesn't quite measure up.

now the question to you is, as a foreigner, do you think we're stupid for not taking your observations about Obama as gospel?

only half of your electorate actually vote, so don't you really mean a little less than 1/4 don't like Obama?

It really doesn't matter what either candidate says or campaigns for anyway. So many Americans vote for one party or another regardless of the nominee. Some states (south, mid west) are just conservative by nature (religious too) and always vote Republican.

Plus, I really don't want to bring the race issue into this, but let's be honest. Racism is still a huge issue in your country and many Americans simply aren't going to vote for a black man, no matter how qualifed he is.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 only half of your electorate actually vote, so don't you really mean a little less than 1/4 don't like Obama?

LOL... no. Because that statement you are assuming that the other 50% that don't or can't vote all love Obama.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo no. he appears that way to you. almost half of the electorate in this country, to them, he doesn't quite measure up.

Well, obviously half the electorate are just wrong No but seriously, I have a hard time seeing how McCain would be better on those. Obviously Obama has more charisma (if you don't agree with that one, I'm just gonna give up this debate), and I think it's pretty clear that he's a more understanding guy in foreign policy (he has lived abroad, amongst other things, that makes him more qualified to understand other cultures, and no, you don't learn cultures by living at an army base abroad). When it comes to knowledge, I think they are pretty much equal, with Obama having the lead, but that doesn't matter that much since they will have advisers helping them anyway...

Anyway, I think the reason why so many still votes McCain is that they don't value those aspects. They rather want a tough guy from the military who can stop gays from marrying...

quote:

now the question to you is, as a foreigner, do you think we're stupid for not taking your observations about Obama as gospel?

No, I think McCain is a decent guy too. So you are not stupid in my opinion, just different

However, I think the use of the argument that McCain is a lot more experienced on foreign policy is kinda stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss LOL... no. Because that statement you are assuming that, of the other 50% that don't or can't vote, all love Obama.

I never said that. It doesn't matter what you think if you don't vote.

If anything, Obama enjoys more support among those who don't vote or feel disenfranchised (blacks, latins, less fortunates, etc). The hard part is getting those people who dont really give a shit out to vote.

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"No offense, but you're stupid"

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 only half of your electorate actually vote, so don't you really mean a little less than 1/4 don't like Obama?

sure. it's irrelevant, but fine.

quote:

It really doesn't matter what either candidate says or campaigns for anyway. So many Americans vote for one party or another regardless of the nominee. Some states (south, mid west) are just conservative by nature (religious too) and always vote Republican.

agree.

quote:

Plus, I really don't want to bring the race issue into this, but let's be honest. Racism is still a huge issue in your country and many Americans simply aren't going to vote for a black man, no matter how qualifed he is.

interesting. since you seem to be an advocate for the western European socialist model of government (again tell if i'm wrong) maybe you can point out to me a western European socialist model that has ever even put a black man in this position in recent history? for starters, i'll give you South Africa. you name the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 The gap between the rich and poor is increasing in your country. Do you really think there's a middle class anymore? The United States is much more of a have and have not country than Canada or any European nation. Please explain to me how Bush's massive tax cuts to corporations have done anything positive for the American economy during his tenure?

HAHA... dude take it easy. You are blinded by your seething hatred. Yes, I do think Kerry and Gore would have been worse. From what I recall, Clinton was President during the 1993 trade center bombing, and look where the democratic strategy of "lets let the court system handle it" got us. Clinton also cut our military in half. I don't know why people think Europe (and it's wannabe relative Canada) are so great. If Europe is so great, why don't they produce anything anymore? Why are their fuel prices twice what it is here? Why do they have almost twice the unemployment rates we have? Why are their wages stagnant among the working class?

Bush's tax cuts jolted the economy here... that's a fucking fact. Do you understand that there has to be wage payers first, in order to have wage earners? If you tax the fuck out of corporations at an increasing rate, they are going to cut costs so they can make a profit, and payroll will be the hardest area hit. Allowing those tax cuts not to continue is essentially the same as a tax raise. Our economy hit levels it has never hit before in the history of the markets in the last couple of years, and as it regresses to the mean slightly, you America haters use it as another excuse to blame Bush and say he's fucking up our economy.I can't stand that "gap between rich and poor is getting greater" bullshit. You know what? People here have every opportunity to be as successful as they want, and I don't believe in punishing people for success of taking more money away from the rich and redistributing it to the poor, robinhood style. Obama wants to cut taxes for those at the bottom, but that's going to be hard considering this past year, Americans with an income below the median payed a record low of 2.9% of the income taxes. Read and become educated (this is based on brand new IRS tax data that came out last week... although I think it may be too complex for you based on your last math statement about how only 25% of the people in the US don't like Obama since only half of the 50% voting electorate don't like him):

"We're told the rich paid more taxes because they made a greater share of the money. That's true. "The top 1% earned 22% of all reported income, but they also paid a share of taxes not far from double their share of income." In other words, the tax code's already steeply progressive. Yes, even at 35, 36%. And what this proves is the old adage that when you lower taxes, you get increased revenue. Listen to these numbers. "In 1990, the richest 1% were 14% of the nation's income. They paid 25% of all taxes. In 2000, they paid 37%. In 2005, they paid 39%; and 2006, 40%." So since 1990, the rich, top 1%, richest 1% have paid from 25% in 1990 to 40% in 2006 of all income taxes. The richest 5% in 1990 paid 44%. In 2000, they paid 56%; in 2005, paid 60%. The top 10% now pay 71%. But the big number is the top 50% are paying 97.1% of all taxes.

"It proves the way to soak the rich is with lower tax rates, and the IRS data from last week provide more powerful validation of that proposition. But, nevertheless, the Democrats and Obama continue to say that these tax cuts have been a giveaway to the rich and it's a figment of their imagination. Taxes paid by millionaire households more than doubled to $274 billion in 2006, from $136 billion in 2003." What happened in 2003? We rolled back the Clinton tax increases! "No president has ever plied more money from the rich than George W. Bush did with his 2003 tax cuts. These tax payments from the rich explain the very rapid reduction in the budget deficit to 1.9% of GDP in 2006 when it was 3.5% in 2003."

Good thing the Pentagon backed McCain up... wait... oh, nevermind.

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And here... read this article about the Canadian health care system that you must seem to think is so wonderful... since you make a big deal about so many americans not having health insurance

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArt...299282509335931


It's about your boy Claude Castonguay who created the socialist system in Canada... and how after years of watching it play out, he admits the utter failure his own "revolutionary" plan has become.