Yes i must admit my korgs presets although some not really musical are crazy and im thinking whoa how did the guy synth that. Still a combination of both must be best?

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Processing a highly structured and complex pattern of sensory input as a unified percept of "music" is probably one of the most elaborate features of the human brain.....understanding how music is perceived and how it may elicit intense sensations is far from being understood.

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Originally posted by kitphillips I read the first page of this thread and thought I was going to let loose with a tirade, but now I've calmed down a little:

Always good to think before you speak; or try at least.

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Robby, I appreciate that you want to improve your music, but every time I have come on tranceaddict in the last month, all I have seen is useless threads by you, most of them simply complaining about your lack of ability to produce. We ALL feel frustrated from time to time, but maybe if you spent less time complaining you might get further with your music.

Money might be “useless” to a millionaire, but to a transient it’s a different story. Lets not use relative and ignorant words like “useless”. Doesn’t really make YOU look anymore “useful” then you think you’re being.

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You keep asking questions about how to do things the manual tells you to do (layering in FL and your melodyne thread)

Yeh.. so much for *READING* my thread. I specifically SPECIFIED the FL manual did not clearly outline the layering procedure. Some things in manuals are concise, foolproof and to the point, other things are touch and go. Reread the thread if I’m not being concise enough for you right now.

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then start raving on about filters. Then you realise that you just weren't using the filter envelope.

“Raving”, I’m feeling “useless” just responding to you anymore.
I know A LOT about synths.
That doesn’t mean *everything. BECAUSE I tend to focus on the less obvious things first, I also tend to learn the less fundamental things first.

I know what filter envelopes do, they envelope the filter. (do I have to say ‘duh’ now?)
It’s the discrepancies between actual filter performance that had me leaning towards other more complicated things, like algorithms etc. So I was happy to realize it was only the envelopes when I thought something else was going on.

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Now, you start trying to tell us that you have to use samples, because you can't afford a virus, and only a virus can make the sounds you need. Because:

THEY SOUND **GOOD**. What else matters? I feel like I’m arguing with my gf now.

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But isn't it funny how your claim that Conflicts with the fact you don't know what a filter envelope does? The more I think about it the more annoyed I get,

This statement conflicts with the fact that you didn’t want to respond in a “tirade” and that’s exactly what you’re doing LMFAO!! Isn’t THAT funny?

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because your sitting there complaining that you can't get your sounds, and need a virus and or samples, but clearly can't even be fucked learning about the VSTs you do have. Then rip into Beyer for saying what he should have, which is that your being lazy and unoriginal. Now mate, I don't know how many drinks you had with your friends, but it must have been way too many to make comments like these.

Me and Beyer are fine actually, we already cleared the fact we weren’t trying to offend each other and at no point did any one of us act like we WERE offended.

“Lazy & Unoriginal” = More relative/useless ruckatoo. (ruckatoo’s not a word btw, but I oddly felt it was appropriate for some reason)
Also, Einstein wrote a real cool theory once, the “theory of relativity”, it might help you stop using words like lazy, unoriginal, useless and all those things that are being defined by one single location in this planet, your brain.

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Perhaps if you spent a little more time reading manuals, doing research on google, trawling through old threads, you might get better sounding tracks, and not so much garbage.

*yawn.

Wait.. NO WAY!!
All I have to do is read my manual, use google, trawl old threads and I can make less garbage?!!! *Better* sounding tracks?!!!!!!!!!! Woot woot! Sign me now record labels!

You should write a tut with just that one sentence.
You will help everyone who reads it produce exponentially more garbage. I’ve been reading manuals, googling, doing the old threads for the last 4 years and after a while it just gets old. When newbie issues DO come up, I reference the manual, if I can’t find it in an hour I post just to annoy people like you.
I see a lot of people doing it and because I’ll actually help them, I don’t really care who’s being bothered by it.

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And I'll add that the same goes for sonic, you have 10 FUCKING THREADS in the first two pages Most of them have already been covered. For gods sakes, hang around a while both of you, you'll see the same questions come up over and over. Read the FAQ, read your manuals, and stop asking every daft question that comes into your heads I'm not trying to spread the hate here. I wish you both the best in your musical endevours, I admire you both for trying to improve your craft. But just make some effort for yourselves. Production isn't something that can be learned in a month, it takes years and trying to speed it up by asking every question of us, simply won't help. We aren't some sort of automated manual summarising tool.

Everything you say you’re NOT trying to do you are.

“not trying to go on a tirade”, this ENTIRE THREAD was nothing short of that.

“not trying to spread the hate”, where the fuck is the love?
When I am genuinely not trying to “spread the hate” but I have to walk sensitive boundaries, I usually try balancing out all of the hate with at least some love, whether its real or not, its STILL all just my opinion (or yours) so while I’m reading my manual, you try reading “Chicken Soup For Hateful Bastards Who Think They’re Not Actually Spreading Hate When Even A 4 y/old Can Tell That’s All They’re Doing”.

Great book, highly recommend it.
Oh and because my manual is realllly long, and so are dictionaries, if you read one, you can get words like “summarising” “endevours” and “realise” right next time.

Yeh it’s a low blow, petty too I know. But rather then assume you’re lazy and don’t read dictionaries, it’s probably just the fact that you’re not perfect and make mistakes. So if I’m not ready to sit here and give you a spelling lesson, I certainly won’t call you illiterate then try to convince you I’m not spreading hate.

Because even though I make my share of mistakes, I can actually think outside the box. I’m also sure you’re not really as close minded as you seem.

Cheers! - Roxx

I'm actually just deleting this, because it makes ME look bad. I really can't be bothered arguing, so have a nice life.

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Last edited by kitphillips on Aug-06-2008 at 12:45

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox I know what filter envelopes do, they envelope the filter. (do I have to say ‘duh’ now?)

That isn't actually a very useful description of what a filter envelope does to a filter, and really doesn't demonstrate that you've learned much of anything.

I'm kind of wondering whether you still don't have a clue what a filter envelope actually does to the frequency content of a sound, or what each phase of an ADSR envelope does. If, as you say, you've been reading about synths, synth programming, and electronic music production for four whole years without learning at least those basic things, then either you just haven't been reading the right sites or you're an incredibly slow learner.

In the latter case, a Virus TI might not exactly be the best thing for you, as it's far from being the easiest synth in the world to program. Maybe you would be best off simply buying a bunch of samples like you talked about at the beginning of the thread. There's nothing wrong with finding the synth-programming part of production tedious or too difficult to bother with for very long; some people just want to have a set of nice sounds, regardless of whether they programmed them on their own, and then write some good melodies with them, and that's fine. You don't need to build your own guitar to write decent rock music, after all.



Personally, exploring the generation of new sounds is half the fun for me, maybe more than half, but I know other people think differently.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles You don't need to build your own guitar to write decent rock music, after all.

yeah but here were disscussing EDM which is based on innovations with new sounds... and this is not best achieved by using samples IMO...

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA yeah but here were disscussing EDM which is based on innovations with new sounds...

I agree, but someone can still write good tracks and even great ones without being innovative with regard to sound, which is all I was saying. Think of acid house, using the same instruments and sounds (303, 808, 909) all the time but still putting out some great tracks IMO.

My impression is that Robby is a lot more interested in the music-writing part than the synth-programming part, and he just wants to get some sounds he likes and then be on his way to writing the music itself.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I agree, but someone can still write good tracks and even great ones without being innovative with regard to sound, which is all I was saying. Think of acid house, using the same instruments and sounds (303, 808, 909) all the time but still putting out some great tracks IMO. My impression is that Robby is a lot more interested in the music-writing part than the synth-programming part, and he just wants to get some sounds he likes and then be on his way to writing the music itself.

thats right... but you know, even in metal sound is evolving (more slowly, but still) thanks to great inventions like the whammy pedal and auto wah we have great sounds like in audioslaves albums and the super low tuning of korn and such...

i think the days of just writing great melodies are over you also need to invest in the sound of things, and i say this on all genres of modern music... even modern orchestral stuff are experimenting new sounds... and i think this evolution of sound begane when music did, and recorded music brought a whole new phase to it, not to mention the electronic music era...

but on topic, yeah if you just want to write beautifull melodies and music you dont need much more then a bunch of samples...

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Originally posted by Vortex_SA the thing is that the hardware synth will make the sound in a similar way its just that it comes with much more professional presets so people tend to qualify them as better...

The presets on a Virus is the most useless presets ive ever heard.

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Filter Envelope modulates the filter, it does not envelope the filter. Sorry but, that just sounded retarded.

Correct me if I am wrong.?.?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles That isn't actually a very useful description of what a filter envelope does to a filter, and really doesn't demonstrate that you've learned much of anything.

I love when people say things like "that isn't a *USEFUL* description". First see what I said to the first guy about words like useful and what it means to other people.

In the context of my thread, I'm not going to sit here explaining the details because its not a tutorial. Its a response to someone. But thats EXACTLY what filter envelopes do. They envelope the sound by altering frequencies determined by the type of filter and ASDR settings.

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I'm kind of wondering whether you still don't have a clue what a filter envelope actually does to the frequency content of a sound,

When you have to wonder yourself, thats a sign alone that you yourself don't have a clue. Not rocket science, think about it.

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or what each phase of an ADSR envelope does. If, as you say, you've been reading about synths, synth programming, and electronic music production for four whole years without learning at least those basic things, then either you just haven't been reading the right sites or you're an incredibly slow learner.

Jesus Christ your kidding right? So I'm a slow learner now because I didn't go into a 4 hour shpeal about filter envelopes when that was 1% of what I was actually talking about? You make absolutely no sense at all.

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In the latter case, a Virus TI might not exactly be the best thing for you, as it's far from being the easiest synth in the world to program. Maybe you would be best off simply buying a bunch of samples like you talked about at the beginning of the thread.

Grrreat. Pay attention to the language and my tone. Then come back and tell me where I said I was seriously contemplating buying a Virus. Then I'll tell you if you're right or not.

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There's nothing wrong with finding the synth-programming part of production tedious or too difficult to bother with for very long; some people just want to have a set of nice sounds, regardless of whether they programmed them on their own, and then write some good melodies with them, and that's fine. You don't need to build your own guitar to write decent rock music, after all.

I went through a phase where I did nothing but play with knobs and read about what they do. I can't hear a sound then go replicate it in 10 secs on a synth, and theres prob a whole lot of other stuff I can't do. But I absolutely find mixing different sounds together a lot more entertaining then sitting with a SS in front of me for 2 hours trying to get the *perfect settings.

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Personally, exploring the generation of new sounds is half the fun for me, maybe more than half, but I know other people think differently.

I agree, but to me after I explore a few hundred its like "ok lets just make a track now!! Enough playing."

=]

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I agree, but someone can still write good tracks and even great ones without being innovative with regard to sound, which is all I was saying. Think of acid house, using the same instruments and sounds (303, 808, 909) all the time but still putting out some great tracks IMO. My impression is that Robby is a lot more interested in the music-writing part than the synth-programming part, and he just wants to get some sounds he likes and then be on his way to writing the music itself.

Yeh don't get me wrong, to me synths are some of the coolest things that exist. Just what they do to sound and how they've revolutionized music is amazing.

But I do like working more with an entire beat. Like having a kick/bass/hat/lead line and altering all of the sounds individually. Really getting the levels right, working out the muddy frequencies and getting a decent groove and timing down.
Its just what I enjoy more.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Grrreat. Pay attention to the language and my tone. Then come back and tell me where I said I was seriously contemplating buying a Virus. Then I'll tell you if you're right or not.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox And yeh a Virus is def on the list lol but I just don't have the money for one right now.

Robby, dude, seriously... is any of this worth the time it takes to dissect a post and play tit for tat? I mean, you sliced an eight sentence post into six different responses. You checked someone else on spelling (while your grammar and punctuation are screaming for help, which is ok - this is an informal forum - it's just not ok when you start knocking others). And at the end of the day, you basically say the same thing Jive did...

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles My impression is that Robby is a lot more interested in the music-writing part than the synth-programming part, and he just wants to get some sounds he likes and then be on his way to writing the music itself.

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox ...to me synths are some of the coolest things that exist. Just what they do to sound and how they've revolutionized music is amazing. But I do like working more with an entire beat. Like having a kick/bass/hat/lead line and altering all of the sounds individually. Really getting the levels right, working out the muddy frequencies and getting a decent groove and timing down. Its just what I enjoy more.

My impression is that it's easy to get defensive on a forum with regular interaction. But, generally speaking, I just drop the forum for a few days if I'm getting that frustrated. Dive into producing, come back when I have a technical question, then I'm hooked again... till I'm not. Just my $.02.