I'll start by saying that the plane is perfectly safe. A dash-8 Q400 would be fairly comparable to anything else if all other factors were the same. In this case the factors aren't the same, or even close to the same.

Air Canada/WestJet/Jazz, etc operate out of Pearson which has 6 massively long runways. Porter operates onto the island which only has one runway which is usable for them. In normal weather conditions this is a moot point. However in conditions with reduced runway friction it drastically reduces the safety margin both on landing and take off. Porter also flies a steeper approach profile into the island. This just makes the problem worse on landing due to energy management issues.

The average crew at Air Canada or WestJet has a much greater experience base than the average porter crew. Again, on a normal day, this will be moot point. Air Canada and WestJet for the most part have the first pick of the pilot pool. Porter couldn't find pilots of the experience level that they wanted before, so to keep the hiring going they simply lowered their minimum safe requirements.

So all of that out of the way. Porter obviously is providing a service that the people of downtown want. They've had great success with trying to bring some of the nostalgia and class back to flying. I can only hope that others will try and follow suit rather than always strive pinch every last penny.

I'm sure I'll get flamed as usual by people who have no real clue about aviation or flying transport category props or jets in North America. I'm just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings posted here, and perhaps bring to light a few issues some might not have considered.

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe

Nothing like an informative post once in a while...

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quote:

Originally posted by failsafe I'll start by saying that the plane is perfectly safe. A dash-8 Q400 would be fairly comparable to anything else if all other factors were the same. In this case the factors aren't the same, or even close to the same. Air Canada/WestJet/Jazz, etc operate out of Pearson which has 6 massively long runways. Porter operates onto the island which only has one runway which is usable for them. In normal weather conditions this is a moot point. However in conditions with reduced runway friction it drastically reduces the safety margin both on landing and take off. Porter also flies a steeper approach profile into the island. This just makes the problem worse on landing due to energy management issues. The average crew at Air Canada or WestJet has a much greater experience base than the average porter crew. Again, on a normal day, this will be moot point. Air Canada and WestJet for the most part have the first pick of the pilot pool. Porter couldn't find pilots of the experience level that they wanted before, so to keep the hiring going they simply lowered their minimum safe requirements. So all of that out of the way. Porter obviously is providing a service that the people of downtown want. They've had great success with trying to bring some of the nostalgia and class back to flying. I can only hope that others will try and follow suit rather than always strive pinch every last penny. I'm sure I'll get flamed as usual by people who have no real clue about aviation or flying transport category props or jets in North America. I'm just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings posted here, and perhaps bring to light a few issues some might not have considered.

Great post!

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe I'll start by saying that the plane is perfectly safe. A dash-8 Q400 would be fairly comparable to anything else if all other factors were the same. In this case the factors aren't the same, or even close to the same. Air Canada/WestJet/Jazz, etc operate out of Pearson which has 6 massively long runways. Porter operates onto the island which only has one runway which is usable for them. In normal weather conditions this is a moot point. However in conditions with reduced runway friction it drastically reduces the safety margin both on landing and take off. Porter also flies a steeper approach profile into the island. This just makes the problem worse on landing due to energy management issues. The average crew at Air Canada or WestJet has a much greater experience base than the average porter crew. Again, on a normal day, this will be moot point. Air Canada and WestJet for the most part have the first pick of the pilot pool. Porter couldn't find pilots of the experience level that they wanted before, so to keep the hiring going they simply lowered their minimum safe requirements. So all of that out of the way. Porter obviously is providing a service that the people of downtown want. They've had great success with trying to bring some of the nostalgia and class back to flying. I can only hope that others will try and follow suit rather than always strive pinch every last penny. I'm sure I'll get flamed as usual by people who have no real clue about aviation or flying transport category props or jets in North America. I'm just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings posted here, and perhaps bring to light a few issues some might not have considered.

Everything you say is very true (a friend works for Air Canada and says the same thing). Too bad they won't let Air Canada fly out of the island. From what I have read Porter's Q400 have smaller fuel tanks to make up for the shorter runway which is why they can't fly to Halifax non stop. The perfect compromise would be to allow others to fly out of the island while keeping it unique, fast and convienant.

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quote:

Originally posted by failsafe I'll start by saying that the plane is perfectly safe. A dash-8 Q400 would be fairly comparable to anything else if all other factors were the same. In this case the factors aren't the same, or even close to the same. Air Canada/WestJet/Jazz, etc operate out of Pearson which has 6 massively long runways. Porter operates onto the island which only has one runway which is usable for them. In normal weather conditions this is a moot point. However in conditions with reduced runway friction it drastically reduces the safety margin both on landing and take off. Porter also flies a steeper approach profile into the island. This just makes the problem worse on landing due to energy management issues. The average crew at Air Canada or WestJet has a much greater experience base than the average porter crew. Again, on a normal day, this will be moot point. Air Canada and WestJet for the most part have the first pick of the pilot pool. Porter couldn't find pilots of the experience level that they wanted before, so to keep the hiring going they simply lowered their minimum safe requirements. So all of that out of the way. Porter obviously is providing a service that the people of downtown want. They've had great success with trying to bring some of the nostalgia and class back to flying. I can only hope that others will try and follow suit rather than always strive pinch every last penny. I'm sure I'll get flamed as usual by people who have no real clue about aviation or flying transport category props or jets in North America. I'm just trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings posted here, and perhaps bring to light a few issues some might not have considered.

I remember speaking with an engineer from Pratt and Whitney who designs turbo props and he said they were safer than standard large jet engines (don't know the preferred nomenclature and I don't have time to look it up). Perhaps because the intakes are not as large so there's less chance of swallowing a bird or something. I don't remember, and this conversation was over a beer (or six).

I remember a bumpy approach while landing at the island, but I was ultimately very satisfied with the flight. I will never fly to New York via Pearson again.

quote:

Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Everything you say is very true (a friend works for Air Canada and says the same thing). Too bad they won't let Air Canada fly out of the island. From what I have read Porter's Q400 have smaller fuel tanks to make up for the shorter runway which is why they can't fly to Halifax non stop. The perfect compromise would be to allow others to fly out of the island while keeping it unique, fast and convienant.

Air Canada is restricted from flying from the island for 2 reasons. The first being that the strip isn't long enough to handle even the smallest jet. The second reason is that the noise abatement procedures for flights out of the island restrict any jet aircraft from going in there. So even if the runway was long enough, the noise regulations would prohibit jet operation.

The Q-400 should have the range to do Halifax non-stop in most conditions. Sometimes in very hot weather which restricts performance, or in snow or rain, which also restricts performance they'll have to reduce weight to be able to legally take off from the island. The reduced weight sometimes means taking less gas, or bumping passengers or bags.

It was my understanding that Porter did the pit stop in Ottawa or Montreal to pick up enough passengers to make the route profitable. If they had just went from the Island they wouldn't have enough people to make money on the flights.

DeleteFromUsers:

There are many types of Turboprop engines that Pratt makes. They're famous PT6 series is famous for it's reliability. Pratt also makes jet engines too, which are no less reliable. The bird comment that you brought up doesn't come into play. During testing of jet engines they feed birds through them to make sure that the fan blades and engine can handle the loads.

I don't have the time now, but if ya search for it i'm sure you can find a video of it. I've seen it even on TV before.

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe During testing of jet engines they feed birds through them to make sure that the fan blades and engine can handle the loads.

Not just birds, but FROZEN TURKEYS!

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quote:

Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Everything you say is very true (a friend works for Air Canada and says the same thing). Too bad they won't let Air Canada fly out of the island. From what I have read Porter's Q400 have smaller fuel tanks to make up for the shorter runway which is why they can't fly to Halifax non stop. The perfect compromise would be to allow others to fly out of the island while keeping it unique, fast and convienant.

They're starting to fly direct to HFX sometime this fall. I just looked at flights for Christmas and the flights are about 40% direct.

with the purchase of new planes, they are also going to start flying to chicago very soon.

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quote:

Originally posted by failsafe

sick post.

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^^ lol. I can't say I've ever seen anyone say "sick post!" before.