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Originally posted by Capitalizt pk, this country had a slight inflation problem once.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic

right, ok. now we're getting somewhere. you have one example. from early 20th century war-ravaged germany. who were getting buttfucked for reparations from france and england etc.

does it have any effect on you when you consider the dozens of liberal democracies that have existed that have not suffered very peculiar hyper-inflation?

do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest that the US will be in the midst of serious hyper-inflation in response to the bailout? if so, when do you expect this hyper-inflation to begin? if not, then why are you even mentioning the weimar republic?

since there is a historical trend of an increase in average incomes over and above what is "stolen" from inflation (in the west), why do you complain about it being the big boogie-man? the amount of emphasis you put upon it is woefully out of proportion.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt As you may recall, the people's desperation...their clamoring for a solution and willingness to accept anything and any leader as long as they had an idea how to fix the problem .was instrumental in the Nazi party coming to power.

that isn't even worth responding to.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt People do desperate and stupid things when they are hit with economic problems.. And we have done it again by giving the federal government unprecedented control and power over the markets...far more than FDR could have ever dreamed..

because the market has done such a bang-up job thus far.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Once the government has power over something, it never lets go.

what are you, 5? that's just absolute nonsense. look at the history of mixed economy in the 20th century. many governments were privatising, then nationalising again to privatising again later. different executives do different things in different times. seriously, stop letting your experience in the last 8 years spoil your historical context.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I won't lie...It is part ideology. And my ideology tells me that this bailout is a huge step towards socialism and fascism and is a complete disaster for our country in the long run.

oh dear, you guys make me laugh sometimes. hello, earth to capitalizt...

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Originally posted by Capitalizt The recession would have been very painful but relatively quick had the bailout not passed...

says who?

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Originally posted by Capitalizt but we have simply delayed it. We are preventing the market from correcting...preventing the natural decline in asset values, stocks, home prices, etc. We are preventing bad people and bad companies from being washed away. These are necessary (and healthy) things that happen during recessions. Instead, we are reinflating the artificial economy YET AGAIN. We are devaluing the currency and going deep into debt to reinflate the bubble, rather than let people feel a little pain as a consequence of their malinvestments.. I can't find words strong enough to describe what a huge mess we are going to face eventually because of this intervention. It's going to be horrible when the real crash happens.

yeah, as ive pointed out to you before, i find your casual dismissal of the problems you are in and what it means for your country (and the world) to reek of either naivete or sheer ideological blindness.

you seem to believe that these cyclical trends in the economies are atypical of "pure" capitalism, which is demonstrably untrue.

sorry, but im going to go with the treasury departments of the major democracies and all their economists over the regular TA henny pennies.

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Originally posted by occrider Simply put, everyone who voted against the troubled asset relief program is either: A) Ignorant of economics or B) A partisan hack willing to put politics above country

occrider > ron paul.

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What are our resident Fabian Socialist trolls telling us now? More Keynesian economics for the downfall of the Republic? Greaaaaat

This bird holds such an elaborate and brilliantly devised poison pill that those Machiavellians are probably going to be running scared to Dubya's new pad once they see some of what might happen to rise from the ashes.

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Does Bush plan on being charged with something in the future? Does Bush foresee a collapse of the United States and feels a strong need to have a place to cut and run to, or does Bush just need a nice secret little place other than Gitmo where he can send people he doesn't like? http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0610/S00308.htm

Pk, Are you so short sighted that you fail to realize most of these modern economies based on fiat money are participating in an experiment that is only really less than half a century in the making? I know you love instant gratification but some things take time.

You tell me to open my eyes. My eyes are open, and it's looking like a bleak future. I see record growth in the size of governments around the world..a parasitic type of growth. I'm watching as politicians strangle the goose that laid the golden egg while deluding themselves into thinking they are saving it's life.. This is happening before your eyes but you refuse to see it. You've bought into the mainstream lie hook, line and sinker.

A few pieces of advice:

Do be open to new ideas from non-traditional sources and likewise, don't unconditionally accept everything you are told by the financial services industry and the financial media. They have a very real stake in preserving the status quo.

Do be open to questions like 'what is money, after all?' in light of the fact that it is created out of thin air and backed by nothing but confidence (and debt). Don't disregard forces that predate the modern financial system and in fact date back to the earliest times in human recorded history; don't disregard honest value and the monetary metal that represents it, gold. After all, the decades long bull market in paper assets and the financial system that created it has programmed the public to believe that this 'barbarous relic' is outdated, outmoded. Well, who is becoming outmoded right before our eyes today?

you didnt really address a single point that i made or question that i asked.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Pk, Are you so short sighted that you fail to realize most of these modern economies based on fiat money are participating in an experiment that is only really less than half a century in the making?

are you so short-sighted that you ignore all the very real reasons that society evolved into fiat money? are you so short-sighted that you ignore the dozens of stable, non-inflationary economies because you have this attachment to an outmoded concept, that was ditched for a reason.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt You tell me to open my eyes. My eyes are open, and it's looking like a bleak future. I see record growth in the size of governments around the world..a parasitic type of growth. I'm watching as politicians strangle the goose that laid the golden egg while deluding themselves into thinking they are saving it's life.. This is happening before your eyes but you refuse to see it. You've bought into the mainstream lie hook, line and sinker.

sorry, but this kind of rhetoric makes me yawn.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Do be open to new ideas from non-traditional sources and likewise,

good analysis speaks for itself, regardless of source. ron paul does not provide good analysis.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt don't unconditionally accept everything you are told by the financial services industry and the financial media. They have a very real stake in preserving the status quo.

i love the way you guys always paint yourself as the free thinkers and everyone that disagrees with you is being misled. you know who else has a stake in the status quo? john citizen.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Do be open to questions like 'what is money, after all?' in light of the fact that it is created out of thin air and backed by nothing but confidence (and debt). Don't disregard forces that predate the modern financial system and in fact date back to the earliest times in human recorded history; don't disregard honest value and the monetary metal that represents it, gold.

the benefits of fiat money, central banks, fractional reserves et al has been pointed out to you repeatedly, i feel there is little to be gained from going over this yet again. the gold standard was replaced because it is inferior and that is economic fact. this has been demonstrated repeatedly, yet you accuse me of being 'closed' to ideas. FYI i was researching alternative political and economic systems when you were first learning the joys of masturbation.

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pk, your "arguments" boil down to "everybody else is doing it, so they must be right". And if you're calling other economies "stable" when nearly every country in the world is now printing and pumping trillions of new dollars into the system to prevent a collapse...sorry man...all I can do is LOL.

What we are seeing today is the culmination of Keynesian economics and a typical fiat bubble. If you think it's working peachy, you're obviously the one blinded by ideology.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt pk, your "arguments" boil down to "everybody else is doing it, so they must be right". And if you're calling other economies "stable" when nearly every country in the world is now printing and pumping trillions of new dollars into the system to prevent a collapse...sorry man...all I can do is LOL. What we are seeing today is the culmination of Keynesian economics and a typical fiat bubble. If you think it's working peachy, you're obviously the one blinded by ideology.

All you have to do is look at that Ron Paul: Something Big Is Going On thread that I just replied in to see what is going on. I think Fabian Socialist John Maynard Keynes and Communist spy Harry Dexter White sowed more of the seeds of our country's destruction at that Bretton Woods Conference.

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Anyone who studies the Morgenthau Diaries can hardly fail to be deeply impressed by the tremendous power which accumulated in the grasping hands of Dr. Harry Dexter White, who in 1953 was identified by J. Edgar Hoover as a Soviet agent. White assumed full responsibility for "all matters with which the Treasury Department has to deal having a bearing on foreign relations . . " [5] He and his colleagues had Secretary Morgenthau's complete approval in the formulation of a blueprint for the permanent elimination of Germany as a world power. The benefits which might accrue to the Soviet Union as a result of such Treasury planning were incalculable. http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/...bek287-304.html

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt this country had a slight inflation problem once.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic As you may recall, the people's desperation...their clamoring for a solution and willingness to accept anything and any leader as long as they had an idea how to fix the problem was instrumental in the Nazi party coming to power.

October 13, 2008

America Becoming Weimar Republic




Ron Paul: Socialism Cannot Save America

For everyone who supports these bailouts...and who believed the panicked commentators, bureaucrats, and politicians screaming "Something must be done! This is Something…therefore it must be done!", my final piece of advice..

Instead of looking to the mainstream for answers to this crisis, why not look to those who saw it coming?

The Bailout Reader

Last edited by Capitalizt on Oct-15-2008 at 12:49

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt most of these modern economies based on fiat money are participating in an experiment

and a bad one, at that!

Hyperinflation Around the Globe:
http://www.dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id=00107&cat_id=17

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt pk, your "arguments" boil down to "everybody else is doing it, so they must be right". And if you're calling other economies "stable" when nearly every country in the world is now printing and pumping trillions of new dollars into the system to prevent a collapse...sorry man...all I can do is LOL. What we are seeing today is the culmination of Keynesian economics and a typical fiat bubble. If you think it's working peachy, you're obviously the one blinded by ideology.

No, my arguments revolve around there being people far more capable of assessing the situation than people like you whose commitment to critical thought went out with that missile in the pentagon, and that repeating the same fallacies re fiat money, gold standards, central banks, fractional reserve lending etc just makes you look uneducated. Are you even still at school? Go and chat to your economics lecturer coz im fucking tired of trying to explain things to you.

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