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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Colin Powell Endorses Obama
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Uh huh, that UN speech is going to haunt him..


Oh, it does.

quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Thursday his prewar speech to the United Nations accusing Iraq of harboring weapons of mass destruction was a "blot" on his record.

"I'm the one who presented it to the world, and (it) will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It is painful now," Powell said in an interview with Barbara Walters on ABC-News.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...well-iraq_x.htm


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Old Post Oct-20-2008 19:05  United Nations
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Oh, it does.



http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...well-iraq_x.htm


Yeah, I was gonna say - who the funk is Colin Powell? The guy's a retard. The guy who knew exactly the precise locations of all weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the guy who was pressing on for the American militaty establishment (whom he is part of). He's just a turncoat. He realized that McCain is toasted now and its time to wiggle under Obama to continue the old music. I got no respect for Powell and quite frankly, despite the fanfare, Powell's "endorsement" is quite meaningless - surely it breaks the Republican ranks, but, if you look at the bigger picture and from the past of things, not so ...


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Old Post Oct-20-2008 21:50  Canada
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Yeah, I was gonna say - who the funk is Colin Powell? The guy's a retard. The guy who knew exactly the precise locations of all weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the guy who was pressing on for the American militaty establishment (whom he is part of). He's just a turncoat. He realized that McCain is toasted now and its time to wiggle under Obama to continue the old music. I got no respect for Powell and quite frankly, despite the fanfare, Powell's "endorsement" is quite meaningless - surely it breaks the Republican ranks, but, if you look at the bigger picture and from the past of things, not so ...


If the guy lied with the Republicans....(insert connection here)....


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 00:13  Canada
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Yeah, I was gonna say - who the funk is Colin Powell? The guy's a retard. The guy who knew exactly the precise locations of all weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the guy who was pressing on for the American militaty establishment (whom he is part of). He's just a turncoat. He realized that McCain is toasted now and its time to wiggle under Obama to continue the old music. I got no respect for Powell and quite frankly, despite the fanfare, Powell's "endorsement" is quite meaningless - surely it breaks the Republican ranks, but, if you look at the bigger picture and from the past of things, not so ...


you've obviously never heard the man speak. Powell is extremely independent and very diplomatic. He is respected by almost everyone.

Old Post Oct-21-2008 01:15  United States
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Yeah, I was gonna say - who the funk is Colin Powell? The guy's a retard. The guy who knew exactly the precise locations of all weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the guy who was pressing on for the American militaty establishment (whom he is part of). He's just a turncoat.


if you had done a little research you would know that colin was as misled as the rest of the world re iraq. yes, since he was the one putting forward the case for war in front of the world, he is responsible for his own actions. however this doesn't mean that he belongs in the same 'sin bin' as cheney and bush and others.

powell was assured that the information he was presenting to the UN was rock solid, and since he is the only person to admit being wrong, he's still a cut above the rest of the neocons imo.


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 01:21  Australia
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
if you had done a little research you would know that colin was as misled as the rest of the world re iraq. yes, since he was the one putting forward the case for war in front of the world, he is responsible for his own actions. however this doesn't mean that he belongs in the same 'sin bin' as cheney and bush and others.

powell was assured that the information he was presenting to the UN was rock solid, and since he is the only person to admit being wrong, he's still a cut above the rest of the neocons imo.


Right on - furthermore, Powell ended friendships over that betrayal (namely with George Tenet).

He argued against the war behind closed doors, and only went to the UN under a direct order by his President. I don't think that completely absolves him of course, but I do think his status as an independent voice of reason is still well-established.


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 01:31  United Nations
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
First Colin Powell, Now…

Ken Adelman is a lifelong conservative Republican. Campaigned for Goldwater, was hired by Rumsfeld at the Office of Economic Opportunity under Nixon, was assistant to Defense Secretary Rumsfeld under Ford, served as Reagan’s director of arms control, and joined the Defense Policy Board for Rumsfeld’s second go-round at the Pentagon, in 2001. Adelman’s friendship with Rumsfeld, Cheney, and their wives goes back to the sixties, and he introduced Cheney to Paul Wolfowitz at a Washington brunch the day Reagan was sworn in.

In recent years, Adelman and his friends Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz fell out over his criticisms of the botching of the Iraq War. Still, he remains a bona-fide hawk (“not really a neo-con but a con-con”) who has never supported a Democrat for President in his life. Two weeks from now that’s going to change: Ken Adelman intends to vote for Barack Obama. He can hardly believe it himself.

Adelman and I exchanged e-mails today about his decision. He asked rhetorically,

Why so, since my views align a lot more with McCain’s than with Obama’s? And since I truly dread the notion of a Democratic president, Democratic House, and hugely Democratic Senate?

Primarily for two reasons, those of temperament and of judgment.

When the economic crisis broke, I found John McCain bouncing all over the place. In those first few crisis days, he was impetuous, inconsistent, and imprudent; ending up just plain weird. Having worked with Ronald Reagan for seven years, and been with him in his critical three summits with Gorbachev, I’ve concluded that that’s no way a president can act under pressure.

Second is judgment. The most important decision John McCain made in his long campaign was deciding on a running mate.

That decision showed appalling lack of judgment. Not only is Sarah Palin not close to being acceptable in high office—I would not have hired her for even a mid-level post in the arms-control agency. But that selection contradicted McCain’s main two, and best two, themes for his campaign—Country First, and experience counts. Neither can he credibly claim, post-Palin pick.

I sure hope Obama is more open, centrist, sensible—dare I say, Clintonesque—than his liberal record indicates, than his cooperation with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid portends. If not, I will be even more startled by my vote than I am now.



http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...uite-colin.html


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 01:37  United Nations
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josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Right on - furthermore, Powell ended friendships over that betrayal (namely with George Tenet).

He argued against the war behind closed doors, and only went to the UN under a direct order by his President. I don't think that completely absolves him of course, but I do think his status as an independent voice of reason is still well-established.


He is also the only senior Bush member to admit specific mistakes and publicly express regret. I think this had a lot to do with all that. All he needed to do was say "I endorse Obama" but to throw the GOP and the Bush admin by extension under the bus; there has to be a sense of pay back to do that (especially so bluntly).

Old Post Oct-21-2008 02:09  United States
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
if you had done a little research you would know that colin was as misled as the rest of the world re iraq. yes, since he was the one putting forward the case for war in front of the world, he is responsible for his own actions. however this doesn't mean that he belongs in the same 'sin bin' as cheney and bush and others.

powell was assured that the information he was presenting to the UN was rock solid, and since he is the only person to admit being wrong, he's still a cut above the rest of the neocons imo.


quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Right on - furthermore, Powell ended friendships over that betrayal (namely with George Tenet).

He argued against the war behind closed doors, and only went to the UN under a direct order by his President. I don't think that completely absolves him of course, but I do think his status as an independent voice of reason is still well-established.


Interesting. Well, dont you guys think it was in Powell's interests to go fight the war in Iraq because it would finance the military industrial complex, which is Powell part of (Pentagon, US military). Other than that, you guys have good points.


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 02:29  Canada
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Kinezi
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2008
Location: Location

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
Is being hanged-to-life a possibility?


Look what if his weight causes the rope to break? That means he should immediatly put on another stronger rope till he 'dies'.

Powell feeds on pity from other people, he makes it sound like he was a victim of the administration, and made that speech because he was the only person in that position of 'secretary of state or whatever' position to go to UN and make that speech.

Well he said he knew Saddam has WMDS on North, South, East and West of Baghdad, and bullshit.. lies.. if he was a real brave person he would have stepped down from his position long before giving that speech.

Admitting a mistake does not make someone undo the mistake he made, people punish to set examples for other people in future. All these people needs to punished to set an example for future generations. Orr bullshit like this will keep on going, Iraq now, Iran later... Syria.. Lebanon, Palestine..


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Old Post Oct-21-2008 02:59  United States
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josh4
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: New York City

Here is the photo Powell was referring to. Published in the New Yorker??? What's Powell doing reading that magazine?

quote:

This summer, the photographer Platon took pictures of hundreds of men and women who volunteered to serve in the military and were sent to Iraq or Afghanistan. He followed them on their journey through training and deployment, after demobilization and in hospitals, to compile a portrait of the dedication of the armed services today. Sergeant Tim Johannsen, who lost both legs when he drove over an I.E.D. on his second tour of duty in Iraq, made a point of buying an Army T-shirt to wear in his photograph. Of his sacrifice, he said, “It’s just part of the job. You know what you signed up for.” Sergeant Matthis Chiroux, a military reporter who has become a vocal opponent of the Iraq war, says that he and others like him “take our activism as a continuation of our oath of service.” Like many who enlist, Johannsen and Chiroux come from military families. Sergeant John McKay, a marine whose uncle and grandfather were marines, and whose three-year-old son posed in uniform at the wedding of a cousin, also a marine, said, “He’s just waiting till he’s eighteen.” He went on, “I’m scared for him, but if he wants to do it I’ll support him.”

http://www.newyorker.com/online/200...platon?slide=16

Old Post Oct-21-2008 03:08  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

i've always admired Powell. still do. he's actually a gifted politician as well a soldier.

he says the Republican Party has "narrowed"? gonna have to call bullshit on that. this election we saw the likes of Rudy Guiliani, Mitt Romney as front runners. FFS John McCain is the nominee!!!

anyway, some insight into the man. who again is not a bad man at all.

quote:
General Blind Spots

Questioning Powell’s judgment and global perception.

By Claudia Rosett

Colin Powell is the current darling of the media, for crossing party lines on Meet the Press to endorse Barack Obama for “ability to inspire …steadiness...intellectual curiosity...depth of knowledge...intellectual vigor...a definitive way of doing business...reaching out all across America…exceptional,” and numerous other virtues, too many to list here. In sum, Powell embraced Obama as a “transformational figure.”

But transformation to what?

On this vital matter, Powell was short on specifics. He spent most of his remaining time on camera slamming John McCain and lamenting the “narrowing” of the Republican party. One need not love the Republicans to notice that Powell seems strangely blind to the failings of a Democratic party which has gone so overboard in its broadening that its Obama ticket is attracting the endorsement not only of Powell, but of the terrorist group, Hamas.

But Powell has had his blind spots before. Here I am not referring narrowly to his famous United Nations presentation in 2003, in which he argued the case for invading Iraq, based on intelligence at the time about weapons of mass destruction. (Though one might well wonder: Had Powell had endorsed John McCain instead of Obama, would the mainstream media now be writing off the same Colin Powell as a washed-up former Bush loyalist, who misled the world about Saddam Hussein?)

No, there was a more troubling dimension to Powell’s Iraq argument in that vital year, 2003. It entailed an enormous omission of highly relevant information, which Powell had at his command, but apparently either missed, or chose to ignore. There has been a considerable lack of intellectual curiosity about it since, not least on the part of Powell himself.

Recall that in early 2003, at the time of the heated debate over toppling Saddam Hussein, Powell was secretary of State. He held that post from 2001-2004. In that job, he was boss of the U.S. Mission to the U.N. in New York, and his Department of State manned the Bush administration’s frontlines in dealing with the U.N. and its various programs and resolutions — notably, those involving the center-stage issue of Iraq.

Those U.N. activities included the massive Oil-for-Food relief program for Iraq, which ran from 1996-2003, and was wound down after the overthrow of Saddam. During its last three years, which overlapped with Powell’s watch at State, Oil-for-Food swelled to become a cover for billions worth of smuggling, kickbacks, illicit graft income, and dirty global networks for Saddam. Outside observers of the U.N. and its conclaves had only highly limited and erratic access to details of this corruption. But the State Department, whose diplomats sat on the U.N. sanctions committee, haggled at the Security Council meetings, and watched the crooked contracts flow through, was certainly aware of this cess pool. As detailed in congressional hearings in 2004 and 2005, State even made various quiet protests and attempts to curb the rot. But these were mostly off-stage, a muffled struggle behind the scenes. They didn’t gain much traction.

Nor was it ever likely that they could have. Saddam Hussein, with U.N. approval, had systematically tipped huge business toward three members of the U.N.’s own Security Council — Russia, China, and France. Out of more than $110 billion worth of Saddam’s oil sales and relief purchases approved under Oil-for-Food, Russia and France were, respectively the number one and number two business partners of Saddam, both for buying lucrative Iraqi oil contracts and selling goods. China ranked in the top ten.

In other words, Russia and France, chief veto-wielding wranglers with the U.S. and U.K. during the U.N. debate, were also among the chief profiteers under a corrupt UN program shepherding massive business with Saddam’s U.N.-sanctioned regime. Between them, by 2003, Russia and France had obtained more than $30 billion worth of Oil-for-Food deals, or almost one third of the total program. China accounted for another $4.3 billion.

The details needed to document this staggering tilt toward select members of the Security Council were not publicly available at the time. The U.N. kept confidential almost all the relevant details of the contracts, such as the names of the contractors, quantities of goods and size of the deals.

Food had come to include companies and characters with close ties to the Kremlin and the French and Chinese governments. State was aware of such oddities as Russian oil companies and Chinese arms manufacturers selling “milk” to Saddam. State knew that these contracts under UN rules were forwarded for approval by the governments of the respective countries. Powell also had long experience with Iraq, and the ways of Saddam, going back to Iraq’s 1990 invasion of Kuwait and the 1991 first Gulf War.

Powell had more than enough documentation at his command to challenge — credibly — the motives of Security Council members Russia and France, for blocking U.S. efforts to try to enforce 17 Security Council resolutions against Saddam.

Yet Powell, when it came to that showdown on the world stage of the U.N., apparently either missed or dismissed as irrelevant the abundant signs — to which he had privileged access — that the U.N. Security Council itself had been corrupted by the same Iraqi regime whose fate they were debating. Powell raised no public alarm; he made no visible mention of this pivotal problem. If anyone was going to raise hell about this matter at the time, call it to the attention of President Bush, and pursue it as the highly germane matter that is surely was, it should have been Powell, secretary of State. Did he not notice? Did he not care? Was his own vision so narrow that he simply did not understand?

Now, here we are, with Powell hailing Obama as a man of “style and substance,” while giving a dismissive shrug to Obama’s record of poor judgment and troubling connections — from Tony Rezko, to Bill Ayers, to Rev. Wright, to ACORN. Nor does Powell seem to have thought through just what it might mean for America’s future power and prosperity, should Obama, with all his vigor and transformational talents, follow through on his promises to turn America into a cradle-to-grave welfare state.

There’s no call here to question Powell’s integrity; he may be a fine general, and an upstanding man. It is his judgment in matters of politics, his perception of how the wider world actually works, that is at issue. In 2003, when he was in the spotlight and entrusted with crucial matters of diplomacy and judgment, he appears to have suffered from an enormous blind spot. That worked to the gross detriment of the United States. With Powell arguing the case, but omitting central facts about Oil-for-Food, America was cast ultimately as the rogue of a rule-abiding U.N. community. Not until the following year, after the U.N. die was cast, did the truth about Oil-for-Food, in all its horrifying and dirty magnitude, begin to spill out. Powell at a critical moment had every reason to recognize that the U.N. Security Council debate was effectively corrupted and rigged against America from the start. He either never realized this, or never told us.

Now Powell is giving his full-throated endorsement to the candidate who promises to bargain with Iran’s mullahs, remake America’s economy in the socialist mold, and change the world — but how? Is it possible that once again, there are highly germane factors that Powell has missed?

Old Post Oct-21-2008 04:02  United States
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