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Originally posted by dannib Why is this the only real proof? So you don't think its proof that i can pick from the top of my head 30+ loops that are ripped directly from commercial tracks? These tracks being released before the vengeance cds? (even clubsounds 1 didn't come out until the very end of 2004) There is also no way on earth that they would have got clearance for all those hundreds of rips. Do you really think they are going to spent a huge amount of time and money clearing samples? This could be prooved easily enough by simply contacting the original artists. Some people just don't want to believe that they have shelled out a lot of money which contains a lot of dishonest material.

Whilst I'm not about to pretend that I know anything about the legailitys of it all I will say this.

The Vengeance sample cds are so well known throughout the industry and used by so many pros and amateurs alike, that if they were using illegal samples, I think they'd have got busted by now.

I believe many of the samples have been ripped from other tracks, no question. But I suspect that either they get permission from the various record labels first to do this, or maybe 2 second loops don't qualify as copyrightable material.

Either way, the Vengeance name is too high profile to be blatantly using ILLEGAL samples.

On topic, I like the Vengeance one shots very much. Excellent variety and always find what I'm after. These, combined with Stylus RMX and I've everything I need. I never use the loops in Vengeance as the processed sound never seems to fit properly in my tracks.

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

G-Con,

I will upload some files tomorrow. you will then see how blatent this ripping is. i would even go so far as to say that some loops are ripped off lower quality mp3 versions of the track. as when comparing to the original .wav track they seem slightly grainy.

Listen to the latin samples in vengeance. Do you think they went and recorded lots of afro, latin percussion etc? no, these sound ripped as well. Its so obvious. Listen to something like a sample magic release and the difference in quality is so big that its ridiculous.

dannib, there may be no need to post samples. Many, many of us have purchased the Vengeance soundsets, so you should be able to refer to them by name/number (I have VEC1 & 2, VEH1 & 2, VFX1 & 2 and VEE).

Just post the list of 30 songs that the loops have obviously been ripped out of, and the names of the Vengeance loops and we'll verify it, run one out of phase against the other and see if they cancel out, either largely or totally. Then we'll have proof.

The rips i talk of are so blatent that you wouldnt need to do a null test.

If vengeance had added even the slightest eq adjustment the file wouldn't null. you would also have to find the exact point in the track that the loop was ripped. It also wouldn't work if you and vengeance had a different master of the recording. For example compilations, radio edits etc are mastered in a completely different way.

these examples are VERY easy to hear just buy using your ear. they are blatent rips. The kick drums are just high-passed from the original tracks.

I did say "largely or totally" - I can imagine they wouldn't null, but if it's the same loop, processed with EQ, then it should still largely cancel out. The kick will still come through if it has been highpassed, but a lot of elements should get very quiet.

It's true, friends of mine heard specific hand made effects of their blackhole-releases (tiesto's label for those who don't know) coming back in the VEC samples.

Problem is there isn't much you can do about it in legal terms. It's very hard.

I don't know if the overwhelming part of Vengeance samples is sampled instead of self made. I wouldn't be surprised if most is sampled and slightly modified. The samples are very usable anyway, I don't like em much but that's a whole other story.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

I just think that people should know before they buy, that the guy is blatently ripping off others material and getting so much praise and passing it off as royalty free material.

In all honesty, i could borrow a few thousand house music records off a friend, sit their for two weeks sampling every single hit and loop. Use some gentle eq and high-passing, overcompress it and have ready the next vengeance cd. Sad but true.

I also find it really wrong when some of their collections contain exact rips from old "successful" sample cds.

Sorry to sound really annoyed about this but i bought a collection of the vengeance cds based upon reccomendations and was so so disapointed. I wasted over £200 on material i realized i already had on vinyl and in various other places.

I just think that people should know before they buy, that the guy is blatently ripping off others material and getting so much praise and passing it off as royalty free material.

In all honesty, i could borrow a few thousand house music records off a friend, sit their for two weeks sampling every single hit and loop. Use some gentle eq and high-passing, overcompress it and have ready the next vengeance cd. Sad but true.

I also find it really wrong when some of their collections contain exact rips from old "successful" sample cds.

Sorry to sound really annoyed about this but i bought a collection of the vengeance cds based upon reccomendations and was so so disapointed. I wasted over £200 on material i realized i already had on vinyl and in various other places.

@storyteller

i also know a producer who isn't even signed to a record label. He posted up a track in a promotional forum. Next thing the main drum loop shows up on Vengeance Electro Essentials.

dannib- You keep talking, why not give some examples?

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www.soundcloud.com/timestretcher

Dont worry i will. It takes along time going through the loops. I will often come accross a loop that i recognise thats ripped. It will then take me ages to find that vinyl or mp3 of the track. I will upload soon. Im at home now.