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Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well I don't think the term electronic dance music is entirely literal in its meaning of music that is made electornically/has heavy use of synthesizers and is made for dancing. May as well include hip hop in there as well if thats the case, which I don't think is true at all.

I'm not sure that argument works in your favor.

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Anyway, care to answer my other questions? Like for instance, what the hell "well produced" is meant to mean if it doesn't mean the sounds are well made and exact.

I don't know, i'm not the one who made the claim psytrance is "well produced". But more importantly, wtf is "well made and exact"? How does one establish whether a sound is "well made" and "exact"? Based on which criteria?

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Originally posted by SMC I don't know, i'm not the one who made the claim psytrance is "well produced". But more importantly, wtf is "well made and exact"? How does one establish whether a sound is "well made" and "exact"? Based on which criteria?

By well made and exact, I mean they each sound well tuned and fit in the song well... so for instance you might fine tune the eq's on the kick to exactly the right amount, or in the case of melody it feels as if its exactly spot on, and you can allmost feel where the melody is going to go next after the first listen of the song, simply because it feels so natural (that's pretty rare, and a rather extreme case I guess).

Anyway, what I mean is, where all the elements play an important role, and feel exactly right for the song, because they have been changed a lot specifically for the song, not because the producer was just using a bunch of presets.

So I guess deep, but not necassarily complicated.

By well made sounds I also somewhat meant thick/nice sounding sounds, which are powerful. So for instance a 303, or really well programmed patch rather then a really plasticey softsynth (not that softsynths are inherently plasticey)... although theres no reason why that necassarily means warm instead of artificial, some really good programming of fm synths can make something that sounds really dark and artificial.

So anyway, I'm suggesting that psy has better programmed synths, and that the whole settings changing along with melody thing also adds a layer of depth, and that it just something thats done just because thats what the genre does, its just something thats highly underused. If the genre is meant to be specifically minimal, thats another thing.

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Last edited by Darkarbiter on Nov-25-2008 at 07:02

I'm agreeing with SMC and all the points he made

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter By well made and exact, I mean they each sound well tuned and fit in the song well... so for instance you might fine tune the eq's on the kick to exactly the right amount, or in the case of melody it feels as if its exactly spot on, and you can allmost feel where the melody is going to go next after the first listen of the song, simply because it feels so natural (that's pretty rare, and a rather extreme case I guess). Anyway, what I mean is, where all the elements play an important role, and feel exactly right for the song, because they have been changed a lot specifically for the song, not because the producer was just using a bunch of presets. So I guess deep, but not necassarily complicated. By well made sounds I also somewhat meant thick/nice sounding sounds, which are powerful. So for instance a 303, or really well programmed patch rather then a really plasticey softsynth (not that softsynths are inherently plasticey)... although theres no reason why that necassarily means warm instead of artificial, some really good programming of fm synths can make something that sounds really dark and artificial. So anyway, I'm suggesting that psy has better programmed synths, and that the whole settings changing along with melody thing also adds a layer of depth, and that it just something thats done just because thats what the genre does, its just something thats highly underused. If the genre is meant to be specifically minimal, thats another thing.

So, in other words "well made" means that you like it. Now i get it, thank you for clearing that up.

You write too much. Writing more doesn't make you seem less stupid. And stop adding shit to your post multiple times after you've submitted it.

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Originally posted by PETRAN I'm agreeing with SMC and all the points he made

Is he right? Maybe.

Is he a huge dick? Absolutely.

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Originally posted by SMC So, in other words "well made" means that you like it. Now i get it, thank you for clearing that up.

Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

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Originally posted by SMC You write too much. Writing more doesn't make you seem less stupid. And stop adding shit to your post multiple times after you've submitted it.

Fair call, and I double up a lot too, and yes... thats sort of what happens when I have a headache and can't think clearly, which is 90% of the time, sorry about that.

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Originally posted by parafrNalia Is he right? Maybe. Is he a huge dick? Absolutely.

Its called TA

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter ... and while its not strictly dancey, neither is drum n bass.

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I remember when I didn't understand techno. I couldn't figure out why anyone liked it, what it's appeal was, but finally one night it came to me. It's much different than melodic music that i was used to and the way you get into it. I found it was more about letting the sounds hit you, than sinking into them.
But as for house that you don't understand. Find the pleasure in a nice solid groove... house music can often seem like it just keeps chugging along, but then you don't hafta go through all the up and downs that other music offers. And plus the basslines can get oh sooo funky!

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

These qualities you name here are too vague, though. You can find well produced music with elements fitting well together in almost any genre, apart from happy hardcore and eurodance maybe... hell, even in eurodance.

What does this say about psy-trance specifically?

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Originally posted by ziptnf We all know by now that everyone who listens to EDM is assigned a particular genre.

?!

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkarbiter Well, somewhat, what makes anything better? You can't really look at how well the elements fit together or how good a bassline sound is on paper.

No, i guess you can't, but remember that i was looking for an explanation as to why someone would claim psytrance is inherently "well produced". Your personal liking for the style doesn't justify such an assertion. Fine tuning sounds and EQing kicks is hardly unique for psytrance and saying things fit together, feel natural, sound right, sounds thick, warm or whatever attribute you like is something we all can do in reference to any music of our liking.

Also it's clumsy to make such a pretentious statement about an entire genre, as if all music within it is of equal quality. Especially with a genre as riddled with shit as psytrance. I like good psytrance myself, i've listened to it a lot and it has never struck me as particularly intelligent, on the contrary i think the style as a whole leans towards the unsubtle and mindless, which is probably why it attracts so many shit producers.