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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yes, because in war proportionism is somehow relevant...

HRMMM...

Yea, it is actually. There are laws to war.

Though technically this probably falls under a "police action."

Either way you look at it Israel is acting as a legitimate nation state and should follow the same laws that everyone else has to. They want to be a part of the world community then they better act like it.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby HRMMM... Yea, it is actually. There are laws to war. Though technically this probably falls under a "police action." Either way you look at it Israel is acting as a legitimate nation state and should follow the same laws that everyone else has to. They want to be a part of the world community then they better act like it.

So Hamas is somehow exempt from this?

I'm not saying I agree with any of this however who in their right mind would think that the IDF wouldn't respond at some point after 100 rockets in the previous 48 hours before the consequence hammer came down? Honestly...

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Yea, it is actually. There are laws to war.

no, there isn't actually. whatever laws you are referring to or any other LOAC do not make distinctions on proportionality.

if anything it's the opposite, as LOAC's dictate wars should be brought to an end as quickly as possible.

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Originally posted by The17sss haha... you're totally taking the Hamas bait exactly as they want. If Canada or the U.S. or England or whoever was getting hit with rockets from a neighboring country, INDESCRIMINATLY dropping into civillian areas, what do you think would happen? So what if 200 people have been killed in one day... Israel is at least specifically targeting Hamas and being as surgical in nature as they can be; Hamas has been asking for this and is trying to get sympathy from all over the world, especially from naive fools like yourself, and play the victim. You think they Israel should count the exact number of rockets and send the exact same amount back "to be fair"? Think about it... if Canada launched about 200 rockets into Detroit, regardless of the number of people they killed, the U.S. would have the right to hit back as necessary.

You are the one being a fuckin fool here blindly supporting the unjustified Isreali actions.

You actually believe answering fire with more fire is the way to response?so what you think Hamas will just sit back and stop these attacks?


You seem to forget the type of conditions the people in Gaza are living under.For the most part they have no water or fuel or any supply of(or barely enough)medicine since Isreal is always blocking the boarders.
These people are fedup and the worlds seems to be doing fuck all to help them out.

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This about sums it up... deal with it----> "Hamas made it clear last week that they wanted war. They announced the end of the so-called truce, although as the 16th paragraph in this report finally makes clear, Hamas and other affiliated groups had never stopped attacking Israel. They want to provoke a wider war and hope to get Egypt involved. The Egyptians opened the border to provide emergency medical care to the wounded and condemned the attack, but have not broken diplomatic relations with Israel yet over the attack.

This whole thing reminds of when Isreal decided to go on a full on war with Lebenon not too long ago over one fuckin captured soldier and they ended up leveling the entire country.

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The world should step aside and quit interfering in the war Hamas so desperately wants and will desperately lose if left to their own devices. As long as Hamas controls Gaza, a state of war exists, and cease-fires do nothing to advance peace, as this year has proven yet again. Tiresome calls for "restraint" don't work when one side is determined to have war. The best way to resolve this conflict is to allow Hamas to have its war and get utterly crushed by Israel or overthrown by Gazans to avoid that unavoidable conclusion. Right and let millions die because of a few Hamas fighters? good one... I never thought you would be such a big fan of wars but it is now clear to me that what it comes to world conflicts your first solution is full out war. [quote]Hamas insists on a war of annihilation and won't accept any other solution. Let them have it."

Fine so let them have proper military fundings like the way Isreal gets all of their fundings from the U.S and then we ll have fair game.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer This whole thing reminds of when Isreal decided to go on a full on war with Lebenon not too long ago over one fuckin captured soldier and they ended up leveling the entire country.

yeah, and you haven't heard a peep from them the last two and a half years have you?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r So Hamas is somehow exempt from this?

So you recognize Hamas as a legitimate government and a state actor?

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Originally posted by Q5echo no, there isn't actually. whatever laws you are referring to or any other LOAC do not make distinctions on proportionality. if anything it's the opposite, as LOAC's dictate wars should be brought to an end as quickly as possible.

Alright, so Russia was just in their response to Georgia this summer as well?

I mean alls fair right... Those Georgians killed a couple "Russians" so Russia can invade and take over half the country and aide and arm the rebel groups there?

You guys havent seen nothing yet. Israel's moves are backed by the governments of the US and Egypt. Livni was in Cairo on Friday, a day before the attacks, and on Saturday Egypt put the blame on the situation solely on Hamas. It was Hamas that decided last week not to renew the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel.
The same response has been coming out of Washington - Hamas is being blamed for what's happened, and the US stands firmly behind Israel. Obama's response to this situation has also so far been less then minimal.

If you people actually care about the people of Gaza, those so-called innocent civilians, then you'll put pressure on Hamas.

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Originally posted by Q5echo Hamas' very existence is predicated on war and acts of war. by your own logic Hamas should be firing rockets across the border into Egypt as well. what are Palestinians supposed to do? reject war.

Hamas was formed in the midst of what Israeli minister of Economics and Finance, Gad Ya'acobi, called "a creeping process of de facto annexation", which included extra-judicial killings, mass detentions, house demolitions, deportations, and so on (Ackerman, P and Duvall, A: "A Force More Powerful: A Century of Nonviolent Conflict", page 403. St. Martin's Press, 2000). The Israeli state apparatus carried out contradictory and conflicting policies that injured Israel's own interests such as the closing of education establishments (putting more youths onto the streets) and issuing the Shin Bet list of collaborators. In 1989, local committees in Beit Sahour initiated a nonviolence movement to withhold taxes, taking up the slogan "No Taxation Without Representation," the legality of which under international law is disputed. The Israeli defense minister Yitzhak Rabin response was: "We will teach them there is a price for refusing the laws of Israel." When time in prison did not stop the activists, Israel crushed the boycott by imposing heavy fines while seizing and disposing the equipment, furnishings, and goods from local stores, factories, and homes.

I know, I know. The Palestinians are just supposed to accept their humiliation...and by that, your statement...Hamas' very existence is predicated on war and acts of war...is hypocritically laughable...

And you want to talk about Egypt huh? Another reason why Muslims are so pissed off at us. We support their dictatorships. So much for freedom. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan...Such freedom loving regimes huh?

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Last edited by Krypton on Dec-28-2008 at 09:18

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Originally posted by CHRles You guys havent seen nothing yet. Israel's moves are backed by the governments of the US and Egypt. Livni was in Cairo on Friday, a day before the attacks, and on Saturday Egypt put the blame on the situation solely on Hamas. It was Hamas that decided last week not to renew the Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel. The same response has been coming out of Washington - Hamas is being blamed for what's happened, and the US stands firmly behind Israel. Obama's response to this situation has also so far been less then minimal. If you people actually care about the people of Gaza, those so-called innocent civilians, then you'll put pressure on Hamas.

Egypt? You mean the right wing dictatorship of Mubarak, who cares not of the will of his people? Oh that Egypt. And what cease fire? You mean, the cease fire where the Palestinians have to accept humiliation, while Israel continues it's illegal blockade? Oh that cease fire. Who really gives a fuck about what the US thinks nowadays? We've already fucked that up with our tryst in Iraq.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King 16 israelis killed in about a decade from rockets 225 Palestinians killed by israeli missiles in ONE DAY. Disgusting

But that won't stop the Hamas from firing MORE rockets from schools and hospitals just so Israel can retaliate and then dumbasses all over America and Europe can scream "Israel is killing Israel is killing." What's disgusting is the Hamas put themselves in this position. They KNEW Israel would retaliate but they fired rockets anyway.

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