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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen Recessions historically last approx 18 months, so following history it would be over by years end anyway.

Normal recession...

A free-fall that hasn't even showed any signs of slowing...

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I feel much better now, thanks for taking all that time to ponder our situation, our country is much better off now

The only reason you think all this bullshit is because thats what everyone on TV is feeding you. Theres 8 million pundits all having fun ripping this bill to shreds like it's the great satan. It's fucking painfully obvious that you haven't actually thought about it all the way through or are incapable of making the necessary connections. If you actually think about where the money is going, what it will be spent on, it really isn't that bad. This is money that will benefit the country for a while to come. It's going to get stalled construction projects accross the country going. It's going to help states meet their shortfalls and not have to cut teacher salaries or close schools and hospitals or prisons. It's going to get the ball rolling on making the entire nation more energy efficient and green. It's going to help poor people and people who have lost their jobs by extending unemployment benefits.

It really isn't rocket science...

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis The only reason you think all this bullshit is because thats what everyone on TV is feeding you.

I posted an article, which is something that has to be read.

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen yea well, education spending has its time and place, and that is not for an emergency economic stimulus package. We need consumers to be spending NOT our wasteful government. Not sure why we dont take a page out of REAGONOMICS and cut taxes. Start with the payroll taxes so that companies can afford not to be laying everybody off. Most of this is all welfare programs disguised as tax cuts. why would somebody who doesnt have any tax liability, thus not pay any tax, get a tax refund?? WTF

May not be payroll tax cuts, but there is still a decent amount of tax breaks in the bill...

* A tax break for companies allowing them to write off current losses against previous tax years for up to five years, instead of the current two years, has been scaled back from provisions in the bills passed by the House and Senate. Negotiators said the tax break would now be targeted to small businesses. Package includes other small business tax breaks to encourage new investment.

* Tax provisions total $282 billion, with the remaining approximately $507 billion in spending for infrastructure, health and other programs.

* A "make work pay" tax credit championed by Obama is $400 for individuals and $800 for couples. Earlier versions called for a tax credit of $500 and $1,000 respectively.

* A tax credit for home buyers worth about $8,000. Earlier proposals put the credit as high as $15,000 and as low as $7,500.

* Temporary alternative minimum tax relief for more than 20 million taxpayers who otherwise would face paying the tax originally meant for the wealthy.

* Aide to states worth $87 billion over the next two years to help pay for Medicaid health care for the poor.

* $150 billion for infrastructure including transportation, high-speed Internet service and energy projects.

* $54 billion for a state stabilization fund to help states plug growing budget gaps and pay for school modernization projects. Earlier proposals had put state aid as high as $79 billion and school construction at as much as $16 billion.


* A 60 percent federal subsidy to help laid-off workers keep employer-provided health insurance coverage through COBRA, a federal law that allows workers to temporarily maintain the coverage once provided by employers but at 102 percent of the cost. An earlier version had the COBRA subsidy at 65 percent. A House provision that would have allowed unemployed workers to qualify for Medicaid was dropped.

* $19 billion to help doctors and hospitals upgrade computers and other technology to help share information on patient care to save money. Another $1.1 billion was provided to study effectiveness of various treatments.

* Extends a special unemployment benefits program for long-term jobless workers through December 2009 and increases benefit by $25 per week. Temporarily suspends taxes on some unemployment benefits.

* Increases food stamp benefits by more than 13 percent to help offset rising food costs. Increases other food assistance programs.

* Extends trade adjustment assistance benefits for at least 160,000 workers.

* Provides a tax break for consumers to buy new cars. Consumers will be able to deduct state sales taxes, a far smaller tax benefit than a version passed by the Senate. Purchasers of "plug-in" electric hybrid vehicles get a more generous tax credit of up to $7,500.

* Includes $300 million for the federal government to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles.

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"Ibiza will be Earth’s final refuge after Armageddon" -Nostradamus

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen I posted an article, which is something that has to be read.

It's the same thing. Print, TV, radio, all the critics are spitting out the same thing that they recycle from each other.

If anything is baseless it's singling out 10 million dollar amounts in an 800+ billion dollar bill.

Bills have some pork in them, this is the U.S. legislature we're talking about. Always have always will. The thing is, pork is not always bad. Many times that's how representatives give back to their constituents. You might not care about building a power plant in Illinois, but I'm sure the people who live there are praying for it to inject some jobs into their area.

This bill is far from perfect, but we need it, and it will do a lot of good. We'll extract far more gain from this than the almost unmeasurable amount from the bank bailout (did you see the bank execs getting grilled earlier this week?)

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

we should all get a cup of cofee

Clovis has made some excellent points in this thread. Cheers to that

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Originally posted by Clovis It's the same thing. Print, TV, radio

true, we shouldnt get our news from print, tv, radio, we should get it from...umm...wait... where should we get our news from again?

BTW, its the print, tv, radio, that had the biggest hand in getting this guy elected in the first place.

I'm really into politics if anyone hasn't noticed. It's bad.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen true, we shouldnt get our news from print, tv, radio, we should get it from...umm...wait... where should we get our news from again?

Hard to say, most sources in this country are dogshit.

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BTW, its the print, tv, radio, that had the biggest hand in getting this guy elected in the first place.

I think his campaign, followed by the media, had the biggest hand in getting him elected. Stupid people love hype. Whether it's about HOPE and CHANGE, or regurgitated outrage over a stimulus bill.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

personally, i watch cspan and nbc raw news if im watching anything news related. It basically puts the footage out there and allows you to draw your own conclusions. I also watch foriegn news coverage, or bbc sometimes. But for the most part i just like to read and draw my own conclusions.

but I agree, his campaign was well done, but the best part about it was timing. The media has the final say though, since most americans are unable to think for themselves or research past historical mistakes.