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Originally posted by Krypton Nobody can prove or disprove the existence of a creator god. Your point is moot.

If there does exist a creator God, then his existence is apodeictic. Your point is moot.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Whilst this is certainly true, one camp is a little more complicated than that. Atheist: there is no god. Theist: there is a god. And he believes this And this And this And this And this He wants you to behave like this Will do this to you if you don’t Etc etc etc Now, tell me again who the burden of proof is on again????

I'm not arguing about burden of proof. Just stating neither side can provide an absolute proof.

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Originally posted by Aortik If there does exist a creator God, then his existence is apodeictic. Your point is moot.

If a creator God exists, his existence is self-evident? No shit!?

That's what all the believers have been saying for centuries...

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You claimed that nobody can either prove, nor disprove, the existence of God. Were God to exist, somebody could prove as such through absolute evidence... But if he didn't, then nobody could prove his existence, making your statement true only in the scenario that there is not a God.

So in a sense, you are right... but that doesn't nullify my point.

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Originally posted by Aortik You claimed that nobody can either prove, nor disprove, the existence of God. Were God to exist, somebody could prove as such through absolute evidence... But if he didn't, then nobody could prove his existence, making your statement true only in the scenario that there is not a God. So in a sense, you are right... but that doesn't nullify my point.

That's really bad philosophy. No decent philosopher, theologian or scientist would agree with such a statement.

This has been discussed to death and the burden of absolute proof cannot be placed on either side.

I find the evidence sufficient, therefore I believe. I find the evidence for atheism insufficient.

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Originally posted by Aortik You claimed that nobody can either prove, nor disprove, the existence of God.

Yesssss.

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Were God to exist, somebody could prove as such through absolute evidence...

What absolute evidence would this be? A creator god would not exist within our space-time framework and would thus be undetectable/unmeasurable/etc.

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But if he didn't, then nobody could prove his existence, making your statement true only in the scenario that there is not a God.

If there was no creator god, then nobody could prove his existence? Ok. Well. This is true whether a creator god exists or not. The divine is unmeasurable.

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So in a sense, you are right... but that doesn't nullify my point.

You made an absolute statement as to the existence of a creator god. I'm simply stating that such an absolute statement is illogical.

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Originally posted by Alex Come on Lebez

Come on Alex...Do you or do you not believe the main stories in Christianity? The virgin birth..the turning water into wine...faith healing...the fact that Jesus died and came back to life. You believe in the literal history of these "miracles" don't you? And if you're willing to believe this, what's so far-fetched about believing the other fantasy in the bible?

My main problem with Christians isn't their belief in fantasy..It's how that clouds and limits them (and their children) intellectually. When kids are taught that the world was created in 7 days..yet we know through science that during the first 7 billion days it was nothing but a plasma cloud. They say everything (including man) sprung into life exactly as it is now within the week of creation, but carbon dating proves the existence of animals on earth hundreds of millions of years before man arrived..and that the earth is billions of years old.. I've seen creationists make excuses and call this false evidence planted by God to "test their faith".. Ugh..I wouldn't want handicaps like these to be placed on my worst enemy's children..and certainly not mine.

Even today the creationists are trying to get evolution thrown out of textbooks and trying to get vital stem cell research banned. Religion as a whole is just holding humanity back and has been doing so for centuries. It's time to throw off the shackles of mysticism and see what humanity can accomplish through pure reason for a change.

My issue is with those books. Obviously man made but the planet on the other hand isnt. How fucking big can this universe actually be?

pretty f*cking big..certainly bigger than the writers of the bible thought.. We are basically a tiny rock orbiting around a relatively insignificant sun along with 8 other planets..and our sun is but one of 300 BILLION suns (stars) that is orbiting around a supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy..a galaxy which is but one of 300-400 billion galaxies in the visible universe.

So yeah the universe is pretty f*ckin big..yet another reason I find the adam/eve version of creation unbearably laughable.

Primitive understanding based on absolutely nothing but opinion and misinformation.

Typical.

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Originally posted by Alex Primitive understanding based on absolutely nothing but opinion and misinformation.

i'll take "the bible" for 900 points alex!!

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Good thing I don't take it 100% literally

I wish I could just say I didn't care what people think, but I do genuinely believe it and think it will help people. I guess it makes me an idiot to a lot of people (that I don't care about), yet I'll keep trying to point out the misconceptions people have and hopefully at the very least people will let the issue thaw out a little instead of the absolute nastiness and hate that gets thrown towards religion around here.

Insulting religion and Christianity by saying it's "Fantasy" or all the other names Richard Dawkins comes up with is proof to me that the Atheist is simply insecure in their position and feel the need to insult the other because they can't come up with anything worthwhile to say apart from "God doesn't exist, religion = violence" etc etc.

It will be interesting to see what this generation has to say on their deathbeds. With 60-80 years still to go in life it's easy to be reassured by the prospect of becoming dust and nothing more, but give it a few decades and I wonder how comforting that idea will be when you're shitting yourself daily and waiting for it to be over.

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