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Originally posted by Magnetonium Ummm ... there are MANY proven evil government plots, going all the way back to Watergate and beyond, its just obviously the evidence is lacking for some of the well-planned and well-carried out ones. The most recent episode: covering up the torture allegations - illegal in the first place. Thats probably worse than 9/11 coverup. You just have a problem connecting the pieces. Oh, here's a new one - the link is now connected to Obamaville with its agenda to help out its dear Bush camp. What a great family!!! Catching my drift now? You really that ignorant to believe these bastards support and represent the people? They dont give a flying shit about the people. They bail out the corporations before they ever bail out your sorry ass. Because corporations have great influence and say in the government, and some person like you is nothing, meaningless, and they will put billions of tax dollars into ever-increasing debt and into faltering companies (GM is still going to go bakrupt - despite the billions, last time I checked). Its all a joke. There's little transparency - what the hell is political transparency anyway? Most of the shit is classified and waaaay out of the public view to be decided on or scrutinized. Public support may be against a piece of legislation, but politicians dont give a fuck. Take the American politicians, for example - they've been allied with, gave (and still give) support to some of the world's most horrible regimes - which is why those regimes are alive and strong. Quite frankly, they are learning some tips from those dictators. What an idea - lets ask our friends to provide space to illegally torture people, like they do in some other places - if they do it so successfully, why cant we? Well, after all those years supporting those regimes and seeing how well they oppress and control people all the way from China to Saudi Arabia ... It can play mind games, thats for sure. Quite scary, actually. This is undermining our system, our free world, and feeds those terrible regimes. As a result, our senior politicians, like in America, have a mentality related to those psychopaths - well, they shake hands with them, deal with them, talk nice, etc. Money can buy anything, after all. Its pathetic. Still dont see it, PKC? Stop trying to make government look like an angel, stop living in ignorance and denial. Or dont be part of the problem, and dont post unless you want to contribute to a discussion. You dont see me posting personal hate attacks on "Iran appreciation thread!", as an example - though I am no fan of Iran.

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions without evidence - I think that is pkc's point, though he puts it so poetically.

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He is just thinking rationally and does not for one minute trust what war criminals have been proven to do time and time again.

Once a crook always a crook, what makes you believe they are being 100% honest on anything else they say to you?

On wait, IGNORANCE.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov You are jumping to a lot of conclusions without evidence - I think that is pkc's point, though he puts it so poetically.

Please indulge me. I am not like Opus who goes through much time linking everything he says. Let me know which part you disagree with. I might enlighten you with an article or two. But in reality, most of that stuff is just so common sense I find it hard to believe you think its all pile of horseshit.

Arent we protecting the evil regimes (i.e. Saudis), anti-constitutional and anti-democratic methods, etc. etc. etc. Come on!

As I said - the information is there, but some people have problems connecting the dots.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I still havent read the article that this thread is about, so will just keep making irrational inferences without any evidence.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Please indulge me. I am not like Opus who goes through much time linking everything he says. Let me know which part you disagree with. I might enlighten you with an article or two. But in reality, most of that stuff is just so common sense I find it hard to believe you think its all pile of horseshit. Arent we protecting the evil regimes (i.e. Saudis), anti-constitutional and anti-democratic methods, etc. etc. etc. Come on! As I said - the information is there, but some people have problems connecting the dots.

I didn't say I disagreed with all of your opinions - some have a lot of merit, others seem a little more tenuous, and would certainly benefit from some hard evidence.

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