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Originally posted by The17sss I just read the shale link. So what if there aren't any derricks and different methods are used to extract it... it can still be used in the same way as conventional oil. My truck loves synthetic oil. If the oil extracted from shale can be used similarly to crude, that's good news.

did you hit your head today? i know there is a ton of energy stored in the ground in the rockies, and that it is equivalent to crude. My problem is that it will turn the northern colorado and southern wyoming wilderness into an enormous open pit / strip mine. It's an environmental issue for me. While i would still take issue with extracting the "shale oil" from the land if it was in liquid form (using the heating method the link describes), it wouldn't be nearly as objectionable as mining the resources out of the ground.

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Originally posted by The17sss p.s.- I took some psychology classes in college... doesn't make me a psychologist.

i never claimed to be a geologist.

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Originally posted by The17sss I just read the shale link. So what if there aren't any derricks and different methods are used to extract it... it can still be used in the same way as conventional oil. My truck loves synthetic oil. If the oil extracted from shale can be used similarly to crude, that's good news. p.s.- I took some psychology classes in college... doesn't make me a psychologist.

Oh dear Lord. Is all of your shale in the same place? If you had your way, it seems that you would turn the entire Rocky Mountain range into an open pit mine like the ones posted in this thread. One mine doesn't yield that terribly much shale. You're talking about digging pits all across Wyoming and Colorado in order to keep up your truck's (how did I know you would own a truck?) oil habit.

Sure we have the technology to convert shale into synthetic oil. But you have to dig up the rock first.

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Oil shale can be mined using one of two methods: underground mining using the room-and-pillar method or surface mining. After mining, the oil shale is transported to a facility for retorting, a heating process that separates the oil fractions of oil shale from the mineral fraction.. The vessel in which retorting takes place is known as a retort. After retorting, the oil must be upgraded by further processing before it can be sent to a refinery, and the spent shale must be disposed of. Spent shale may be disposed of in surface impoundments, or as fill in graded areas; it may also be dispoed of in previously mined areas. Eventually, the mined land is reclaimed. Both mining and processing of oil shale involve a variety of environmental impacts, such as global warming and greenhouse gas emissions, disturbance of mined land, disposal of spent shale, use of water resources, and impacts on air and water quality. The development of a commercial oil shale industry in the United States would also have significant social and economic impacts on local communities. Other impediments to development of the oil shale industry in the United States include the relatively high cost of producing oil from oil shale (currently greater than $60 per barrel), and the lack of regulations to lease oil shale.

http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/index.cfm

I can't remember the ratio, but you're talking about multiple tons of shale rock extracted per barrel too. The environmental impact is huge, as is the impact on local communities' water qualities.

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Wow, I hadn't read jerz's post... eerie, same source and same example. haha.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Wow, I hadn't read jerz's post... eerie, same source and same example. haha.

we're right here my son:










seriously though, this isn't even a close call. there's almost no way i could ever support this. the surface area covered by the shale is tens of thousands of square miles. if, however, technology advances so that the environmental impact was minimal, it would be easier to support. Still, my position is that the longer we use fossil fuels for energy, the longer we will be political hostages to the middle east (in addition to the continuation of polluting our earth). Thus, extraction of anything from this shale should be an intermediate step supporting a policy towards elimination of fossil fuels as the primary source of energy.