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Originally posted by Q5echo my opinion is this - Co2 is irrelevant

Wow.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Last edited by Clovis on Jul-01-2009 at 17:39

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Originally posted by The17sss The better question would be, why has NOT ONE TELEVISION NEWS SOURCE (and only 1 print source, AFTER the vote Friday night) reported on the suppression of the EPA report that goes against the climate change data they are trying to use to ram this bill through.... maybe that's why people don't consider it newsworthy? ....

Read: Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky and Edward Herman

The propaganda model they propose would illustrate the reasoning quite clearly.

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Suppression my ass. I've said it over and over, climate skeptics are the modern-day creationists. Wake me when they actually have any evidence to support their fucking assertions.

Man-made global warming deniers akin to creationists? Theres plenty of evidence to suggest more variables than green house gas emissions as the driving force of climate change. You're obviously not looking. How many astrophysicists have to come out with data showing the correlation between solar activity and global temperature before you take them seriously? I'd say the Gore-esque alarmists are closer to creationsts. Their wild claims haven't and aren't coming to fruition, and its already been made clear that there was falsified information in "An Inconvenient Truth." Shouldn't the east coast be well on its way underwater by now?

Its apparent its more of a political issue than good science, since many (tens of thousands) scientists don't agree.

You don't have to be a scientist to figure out that 100 + years of man extracting carbon from the ground and pumping it into the atmosphere is going to have an effect on the planet in more ways than one.

This is a very interesting article but unfortunately you need to register to read the full text.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/20...fa_fact_kolbert

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

It's rudimentary, but I have a harder time believing any "warming" or "climate variability" is caused by naturally occurring elements, so much as it would be easier to believe it is being caused by heat exhaust and industrialization. In my microcosm I have an ice-maker in my garage. It puts out a lot of heat (yet no CO2 that I'm aware of). When the machine is on and the garage door is closed, the garage gets very hot because all of that heat exhaust is contained in a closed environment and can't easily dissipate. If I open the garage door, the heat can escape. The effects of the machine are much more noticeable in the summer than in the winter due to the baseline temperature of my garage during those months.

Who knows--maybe that dastardly ozone hole was Mother Earth's way of ventilating out excess heat.

I'm waiting for the day that the government thinks it is within its authority to charge a Cap-and-Trade tax on people for breathing. As far as my basic science has taught me, the best way to consume extra CO2 is to plant more flora--not to tax the shit out of people and industries which has the longer-term effect of stifling innovation and slowing economic growth.

I think that the more humans try interfere in the name of "solving" the problem with artificial solutions, the more they are likely to set off a wave of unintended consequences.

Want to wean us off fossil fuels that are in limited supply? Absolutely fine with me. However, this cap & trade (soon to be a huge tax on already fragile consumers) plan is unlikely to do anything but empower your government. Additionally, Obama's climate modification plans are entirely pie-in-the-sky unrealistic based on what I've read. Basically, to hit his target for per capita emissions, we'd have to go back to levels associated with....the fucking pilgrims. Might as well mail back your car keys, light bulbs, stove tops, microwaves, refrigerators, etc., etc., etc., now.

I am all in favor of conservation and responsible use of resources.

Save the Earth, Kill the Humans!!!

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Originally posted by Clovis You don't have to be a scientist to figure out that 100 + years of man extracting carbon from the ground and pumping it into the atmosphere is going to have an effect on the planet in more ways than one.

...or smoking tobacco...or growing food and cooking it, or boiling water...

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Originally posted by Shakka ...or smoking tobacco...or growing food and cooking it, or boiling water...

I don't follow..?

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis I don't follow..?

Generalizing mankind extracting things from the earth and pumping something into the atmosphere in return. A bit tongue-in-cheek.

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Originally posted by Shakka It's rudimentary, but I have a harder time believing any "warming" or "climate variability" is caused by naturally occurring elements, so much as it would be easier to believe it is being caused by heat exhaust and industrialization. In my microcosm I have an ice-maker in my garage. It puts out a lot of heat (yet no CO2 that I'm aware of). When the machine is on and the garage door is closed, the garage gets very hot because all of that heat exhaust is contained in a closed environment and can't easily dissipate. If I open the garage door, the heat can escape. The effects of the machine are much more noticeable in the summer than in the winter due to the baseline temperature of my garage during those months. Who knows--maybe that dastardly ozone hole was Mother Earth's way of ventilating out excess heat. I'm waiting for the day that the government thinks it is within its authority to charge a Cap-and-Trade tax on people for breathing. As far as my basic science has taught me, the best way to consume extra CO2 is to plant more flora--not to tax the shit out of people and industries which has the longer-term effect of stifling innovation and slowing economic growth. I think that the more humans try interfere in the name of "solving" the problem with artificial solutions, the more they are likely to set off a wave of unintended consequences. Want to wean us off fossil fuels that are in limited supply? Absolutely fine with me. However, this cap & trade (soon to be a huge tax on already fragile consumers) plan is unlikely to do anything but empower your government. Additionally, Obama's climate modification plans are entirely pie-in-the-sky unrealistic based on what I've read. Basically, to hit his target for per capita emissions, we'd have to go back to levels associated with....the fucking pilgrims. Might as well mail back your car keys, light bulbs, stove tops, microwaves, refrigerators, etc., etc., etc., now. I am all in favor of conservation and responsible use of resources. Save the Earth, Kill the Humans!!!

even a casual observer notices that the termperature of places like, NYC, LA, and Philadelphia are a few degrees warmer than the nearby suburbs. The casual observer would even notice a light hazy (or in the case of LA, a dense haze) hovering over major cities. Obviously, there's more to the heat trap than just the pollution coming out of vehicles (i.e., heat being absorbed by pavement and buildings), but it is undeniable that the dirty shit coming out of cars plays a role in that. I have no problem expanding that on a global level and saying the shit that comes out of cars and is trapt in the upper atmosphere causes the same effect on a much grander, and less noticable scale.


Oh, and i agree, we should plant trees and kill humans. The problem, however, is that brazil kills more flora in a year than we could possibly restore in a dozen years.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 Oh, and i agree, we should plant trees and kill humans. The problem, however, is that brazil kills more flora in a year than we could possibly restore in a dozen years.

Maybe we should start a movement to heavily promote Darwinism and quit trying to rescue every deathly ill S.O.B. on the planet. Oh yeah, that would not make me very popular.

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Originally posted by Shakka Generalizing mankind extracting things from the earth and pumping something into the atmosphere in return. A bit tongue-in-cheek.

Yeah ok, I don't really get the correlation you're making.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Shakka Maybe we should start a movement to heavily promote Darwinism and quit trying to rescue every deathly ill S.O.B. on the planet. Oh yeah, that would not make me very popular.

Michael Jackson's death is already taking out a good number of idiots

In that New Yorker article it was said that if we could just spend a few billion dollars to buy and preserve large swaths of rainforest it could do more good than any carbon cutting programs might ever be able to achieve.

The problems here are not singular, everything plays a role.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.