quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced hidden agenda

I can't believe you actually said the words.

Yawn.

Even IF there were a shred of evidence for that, I'd rather have a hidden agenda than a clearly irrational and destructive agenda.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Even IF there were a shred of evidence for that, I'd rather have a hidden agenda than a clearly irrational and destructive agenda.

With Harper I think the two are one in the same.

___________________

quote:

Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

quote:

Originally posted by Sentinal Mr. Matt your point is very well taken. But I think the point of true contreversy here is one simple thing: timing. Simply put, bad timing. Let the government do what it has to to get the economy back up on its feet, while doing so, the Liberals still have the option to keep a very close eye over the CPC. I think calling an election now will sway alot of voters to conduct protest voting. And there will be another record low voter turnout. Taxpayer money could be much better spent than on stupid partisan politics.

Indeed sir, the timing does suck, just like the timing of most elections.

That said, given the lag time in the efficacy of almost all non-legislative policy decisions, there is nothing that the Harper government will do in the next 6 months that will actually have any bearing on the economy as all of that groundwork has already been laid. Thus leaving the effectiveness of prior policy decisions undertaken by the government to be determined by the administrative branches of government. So, in effect, this could well be the perfect time for an election.

Especially given that the Canadian economy was in the one of the best possible positions in the world, thanks to the inherent stability in the financial system (one instilled by the Liberal governement of the mid-90's, when they halted the BMO/RBC merger, & opposed by the Cons by the way.... NOT THAT I BACK ANY 1 SPECIFIC
PARTY OR IDEOLOGY), heading into the current global economic downturn. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<---------- holy fuckin run on sentence!

___________________
"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought." — Sir Thomas Beecham

The Conservatives need to go asap. Harper has done a completely piss poor job as PM. Canada's image globally has taken a massive hit with him at the helm.

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot The Conservatives need to go asap. Harper has done a completely piss poor job as PM. Canada's image globally has taken a massive hit with him at the helm.

Really? Please explain.

quote:

Originally posted by The Ear Indeed sir, the timing does suck, just like the timing of most elections. That said, given the lag time in the efficacy of almost all non-legislative policy decisions, there is nothing that the Harper government will do in the next 6 months that will actually have any bearing on the economy as all of that groundwork has already been laid. Thus leaving the effectiveness of prior policy decisions undertaken by the government to be determined by the administrative branches of government. So, in effect, this could well be the perfect time for an election. Especially given that the Canadian economy was in the one of the best possible positions in the world, thanks to the inherent stability in the financial system (one instilled by the Liberal governement of the mid-90's, when they halted the BMO/RBC merger, & opposed by the Cons by the way.... NOT THAT I BACK ANY 1 SPECIFIC PARTY OR IDEOLOGY), heading into the current global economic downturn. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<---------- holy fuckin run on sentence!

I dont think the liberal economic platform of the ninties had any bearing on the countries economic defense during this recession. The simple long standing fact is: Canada is rich with natural resources, and because no matter how bad the world economy becomes, people the world over need these resources to survive. Therefor, Canada economy will continue to thrive so long as we continue to export these natural resources. The biggest industry sector hit by this recession is the manufacturing sector. Harper injected stimulus, which is sound policy to try and save jobs, and the auto industry in particular is already showing signs of recovery.

quote:

Originally posted by Sentinal I dont think the liberal economic platform of the ninties had any bearing on the countries economic defense during this recession. The simple long standing fact is: Canada is rich with natural resources, and because no matter how bad the world economy becomes, people the world over need these resources to survive. Therefor, Canada economy will continue to thrive so long as we continue to export these natural resources. The biggest industry sector hit by this recession is the manufacturing sector. Harper injected stimulus, which is sound policy to try and save jobs, and the auto industry in particular is already showing signs of recovery.

The key determinant of the current economic situation is the freeze up of the overnight money markets and balance of payments systems, aka the credit system, or to use the common vernacular, the credit crunch. The reason we didn't see it as bad as other nations is b/c of the fiscal policy meted out by the administrations in the 1990's. The manufacturing sector fell on it's face b/c it's tied to a malformed & poorly administrated US auto sector and economy dependent on such short term loans and credit. So, in effect, the only thing Harper has done is help bail out American companies that are engaged in Canadian industries dependent upon said involvement. The only reason why the Canadian manufacturing sector is receiving said stimulus is to prevent the hemhorraging created by US leadership, and in effect cowing to those companies' failures.

Therefore, the only thing Harper has done is prolong the inevitable — the eventual collapse of the Ontarian manufacturing and auto sectors, as that is exactly what will happen the day that things turn protectionist in US foreign economic policy, or the day the unions are broken & the big 3 move their operations to Mexico where things can be made for a fraction of the cost thanks to NAFTA. If anything, Whoreper & McGimpy shoud be spending stimulus dollars on policy that re-tools the manufacturing and auto sectors away from cross boarder hyper-dependency.

/policy discussion for me

___________________
"The function of music is to release us from the tyranny of conscious thought." — Sir Thomas Beecham

quote:

Originally posted by Sentinal I'm happy with what Harper is doing. Canada is doing well through the recession compared to other countries. GDP is back in the black and there has been about a 30% recovery in thr markets thus far.

Canada is not doing well. This is such a massive illusion. Because the nature of our ultra conserative, and in most cases behind the curve banks come out of this crisis with better looking balance sheets than most we think that we're in better shape than everybody else? lol, ok. A 30% recovery in the markets...how does this have anything to do with Harper at all? There has been a 30% recovery in the markets EVERYWHERE. There is this illusion that we are doing well as a country because of our "abundant natural resource wealth" but it's specific to such a small segment of industry in our country as a whole. Why have our markets rebounded so well? Because China has been stock piling resources and embarking on infrastructure projects as part of their stimulus. When China buys, commodity prices go up....when that happens the TSX posts gains because of the dominance of mining and resource companies. But what also happens, is our dollar appreciates. While we think that we're doing well, we're actually fucking over every other industry in the country.

Harper and the conservatives have failed to address so many key issues that our country faces moving forward. Without mining, we have nothing. Our manufacturing base has been eroding. Some of our most prized intellectual property has been put on the block for sale to foreign firms (Nortel patents, CANDU). We still rank quite low on the competitive index in comparison to where we should be if our ruling elite had the least bit of foresight to put policies in place to get us there.

Our unemployement rate is still pushing double digits. ONTARIO, which pretty much is Canada is in the worst shape of them all. Nothing has been done to address this.

Federal funding disbursement is not representative of the type of urban nation that we have become. Our largest and most powerful cities (Toronto) consistently suffer from funding short falls because of an insufficient allocation of funds to the areas where they are most well spent.

Our brilliant finance minister has now put into a position where pretty much every prominent economist in the country is calling our budget deficit "structural". Do some research to see what happens when that label gets attached to things.

So many people completely fail to notice the significance of everything I have just mentioned moving forward as a nation. It totally fits into the complacent, and lacking foresight stance of our government and general population as a whole.

Oh, and there's that...let's completely infringe upon peoples freedoms but sneak it into law by putting it into the back end of bills where the main purpose of the bill is COMPLETELY different so that nobody makes a stink about our ultra right wing, make the US look like the USSR ideals.

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.

Last edited by slingshot on Sep-03-2009 at 02:54

quote:

Originally posted by The Ear The key determinant of the current economic situation is the freeze up of the overnight money markets and balance of payments systems, aka the credit system, or to use the common vernacular, the credit crunch. The reason we didn't see it as bad as other nations is b/c of the fiscal policy meted out by the administrations in the 1990's. The manufacturing sector fell on it's face b/c it's tied to a malformed & poorly administrated US auto sector and economy dependent on such short term loans and credit. So, in effect, the only thing Harper has done is help bail out American companies that are engaged in Canadian industries dependent upon said involvement. The only reason why the Canadian manufacturing sector is receiving said stimulus is to prevent the hemhorraging created by US leadership, and in effect cowing to those companies' failures. Therefore, the only thing Harper has done is prolong the inevitable — the eventual collapse of the Ontarian manufacturing and auto sectors, as that is exactly what will happen the day that things turn protectionist in US foreign economic policy, or the day the unions are broken & the big 3 move their operations to Mexico where things can be made for a fraction of the cost thanks to NAFTA. If anything, Whoreper & McGimpy shoud be spending stimulus dollars on policy that re-tools the manufacturing and auto sectors away from cross boarder hyper-dependency. /policy discussion for me

Well i have to agree with you on one point. The US foreign economic policy or "Buy American" policy. But this policy is being met with great resistance both inside and outside the US's borders. Think about it. Would you rather buy a car made in the US for 40000 or a car made in Mexico for 15000. But in order for people to afford these items they need the capital to buy them in the first place, resources they simply dont have due to the recession. So the policy will fail.

The third shift was recently added back to the GM Oshawa plant and sales are beginingto rebound. Many domestic auto companies have had to collapse their business plans and restructure altogether. Had Harper not invested in those auto companies there is very good chance they would have closed their operation (and jobs) completely. Many more Canadians would have lost their jobs, so I beleive that it was a smart move to potect Canadian jobs and a clear indication of solid leadership.

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot Canada's image globally has taken a massive hit with him at the helm.

Please. Our country's been taken a lot more seriously with Harper than with the previous lying scumbags who kept getting caught in another multi-million/billion dollar scandal year after year for about 8 years.

He's not perfect - far from it, and I am not that crazy about him anymore - but this "hit" to Canada's "image" is somewhere between gross exaggeration and outright fiction.

In spite of all the mistakes and broken promises, I still think - no, actually, I'm certain that the Tories are still making a better effort than the Chretien/Martin Liberals ever did, and are a hell of a lot more competent than an Ignatieff government could ever be. Unfortunately that doesn't mean they're good, just better. It's too bad that the Liberals can't find someone without shit for brains for us to vote for, because I would like to see some competitive pressure on Harper.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut He's not perfect - far from it, and I am not that crazy about him anymore - but this "hit" to Canada's "image" is somewhere between gross exaggeration and outright fiction.

From a business perspective? With the exception of firms/sovereign wealth funds lining up to buy a piece of Alberta real estate, who else is lining up to do business in this country? For a right wing conservative government? Fail.

We're the only nation in the world still open to investment in our petroleum resources.

You want an example of how to put in place policy that's in the long run benefit of the country? See the Statens pensjonsfond.

___________________
We are the kids of the quiet revolution, and we fight for a new quiet concept of evolution. We play house music.