you guys ruined this thread

Also, the author of that article seems to confuse the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution to a rather alarming degree.

Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness is not a phrase that appears in the Constitution, but is a frequent one cited by conservatives arguing that we should stick to constitutional principles. It may be a minor point, but it's certainly worth remembering that the Declaration is not a legal document.

Furthermore, the Bill of Rights itself was an afterthought tacked on to the end of the Constitution as a mere compromise designed to get Massachusetts and other anti-Federalist states to actually ratify the damn thing. They were each bitterly fought - the "universal principles" you people cling to so dearly were really anything but. Then again, that would require a careful reading of history to know.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by vinnie97 A pursuit that becomes increasingly difficult when big government becomes an obstacle to the ideal.

So how exactly is the big terrible government obstructing you from your pursuit of happiness?


Also you should be free of all the terrible oppression from the big bad us soon, if i watched the news correctly two of the people that are running for governor of texas are die hard seccesionists. And wont that be grand if by some freak incident they get elected.

___________________

And how can the author accuse the left of hyperbole when he's proffered such magnificent verbiage like:

"shred what remains of our Constitution by nationalizing the medical insurance industry, and eventually medicine itself."

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness is not a phrase that appears in the Constitution, but is a frequent one cited by conservatives arguing that we should stick to constitutional principles. It may be a minor point, but it's certainly worth remembering that the Declaration is not a legal document.

Such agreat thing as well that it wasnt a legal document, or else a percentage of the population might have been mighty pissed that they did not have the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Also you should be free of all the terrible oppression from the big bad us soon, if i watched the news correctly two of the people that are running for governor of texas are die hard seccesionists. And wont that be grand if by some freak incident they get elected.

It will be grand indeed - that's 34 fewer guaranteed electoral college votes for the Republicans every year!

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And how can the author accuse the left of hyperbole when he's proffered such magnificent verbiage like: "shred what remains of our Constitution by nationalizing the medical insurance industry, and eventually medicine itself."

That's political thinking though rather than unbiased journalism, no point being a moderate in anything, you'll be ignored unless you've got some kind of super-sized, extremist version of your policy to whack people over the head with, generate fear and loathing to get noticed.
Then call it a:
"War against ________"

Fill in the blank with anything close to hand: War, Drugs, Terror, Fat Kids, Mexico, Trans-Fats
That the average newspaper flicking reader won't gloss over and go 'hey, they've declared war on ________, where's mah rifle!'

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith That's political thinking though rather than unbiased journalism, no point being a moderate in anything, you'll be ignored unless you've got some kind of super-sized, extremist version of your policy to whack people over the head with, generate fear and loathing to get noticed. Then call it a: "War against ________" Fill in the blank with anything close to hand: War, Drugs, Terror, Fat Kids, Mexico, Trans-Fats

I approve of the last one! Nothing worse than a fat transsexual

Or were you thinking of something else?

___________________

Here is a black and white version of American ideologies in a nutshell.

Conservatives are for economic liberties but not social liberties. Liberals are for social liberties but not economic liberties. Reality lies somewhere in the middle as liberals advocate a mixed economic system while conservatives advocate almost no state enterprise. Conservatives care whether the 10 commandments is posted on a government building but couldn't give two shits when two consenting adults who happen to be gay want the same rights as all married couples. Conservatives confuse me with their anti-government rhetoric but when they'r in power, they shut right the fuck up, even when their government expands into a gigantic national security state. So much for being anti-government.

That's my rant.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Here is a black and white version of American ideologies in a nutshell. Conservatives are for economic liberties but not social liberties. Liberals are for social liberties but not economic liberties. Reality lies somewhere in the middle as liberals advocate a mixed economic system while conservatives advocate almost no state enterprise. Conservatives care whether the 10 commandments is posted on a government building but couldn't give two shits when two consenting adults who happen to be gay want the same rights as all married couples. Conservatives confuse me with their anti-government rhetoric but when they'r in power, they shut right the fuck up, even when their government expands into a gigantic national security state. So much for being anti-government. That's my rant.

For once, we agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness is not a phrase that appears in the Constitution, but is a frequent one cited by conservatives arguing that we should stick to constitutional principles. It may be a minor point, but it's certainly worth remembering that the Declaration is not a legal document.

eh, I don't think it's fair to say something like "cited by conservatives." That's just a little disingenuous, IMO. Pursuit of happiness be damned. That said, anyone who knows some basic American history knows it's from the Declaration of Independence, an equally important document in the founding of this country.

From the Constitution:

quote:

It is commonly understood that the Bill of Rights was not originally intended to apply to the states, though except where amendments refer specifically to the Federal Government or a branch thereof (as in the First Amendment, under which some states in the early years of the nation officially established a religion), there is no such delineation in the text itself. Nevertheless, a general interpretation of inapplicability to the states remained until 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment was passed, which stated, in part, that: “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

From the Declaration of Independence:

quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to...

That all said, it's not difficult to see how any person might mix them up. What do you mean when you say that the Declaration is not a legal document?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka eh, I don't think it's fair to say something like "cited by conservatives." That's just a little disingenuous, IMO.

Point taken - a certain brand of libertarian would have been a better label to apply, were labels even ever appropriately used.

quote:

From the Constitution:

Yes, but you do well to include the year (1868) that language like that first appeared in the Constitution - it is a direct reference to the new illegality of slavery, and not something proffered by the Founding Fathers.

quote:

That all said, it's not difficult to see how any person might mix them up. What do you mean when you say that the Declaration is not a legal document?

Simply that the Declaration of Independence is a guiding principle and not a binding document - furthermore, it represents that work and ideas of a very few select people.

___________________