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Originally posted by SPAWNmaster It's an idea. And I can't think of any one "big name" as an example at the moment but I'm sure any of us can think of a local guy who is amazing with a sequencer like Ableton who doesn't have the traditional vinyl/cdj background.

OR the ability to make it big because of the amount of shite dj's out there. End of the day, it's who you know not what you know.

If my friend knows more people and plays of a laptop, he'll get more gigs and earn more money even if he is playing for cheaper.

End of the day, it's all about track selection these days. No one cares how you're putting it together any more. 90% of the crowd don't give a rats ass if you're using vinyl, cd's, DVS, or a laptop. They want good music that's it. 8% care about the equipment and 2% are angry at you for not using vinyl.

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Originally posted by djnitride Why do some DJ's look down on everything but vinyl?

Why do old people hate computers?

(Damn kids with your fancy machines.)

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Temporarily retired from the world of DJing.

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Originally posted by DiscoStew Why do old people hate computers? (Damn kids with your fancy machines.)

Can't really compare that because computers do a lot of things better and faster than we can, which is not analogous to the Vinyl/dgital debate (the quality is lower and the task is essentially the same etc.)

here are my sentiments on the subject from other threads:

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I also, don't really like the idea of always looking at a screen to mix - it detracts from the tactile relationship with decks and therefore the performance aspect of a set, resulting in IMO, in more boring music.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN This is so funny. About 2 years ago when the whole DVS thing exploded, I posted in various threads about how the use of the laptop detracted from the DJ'ing performance, and how I feel that from laptops sets that I've done and witnessed vs CDJ sets, the night, the music , the mixing (etc.) was so much better. Loads of people argued saying laptops don't detract from the performance and how there are so much more possibilities with laptop (blah blah blah) and now people seem to be saying the same thing. Granted, they let you have a much larger library of tracks at your figertips and some of the features are nice but I have still never seen a laptop set that was better than even a mediocre CDJ ot Vinyl set.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I've always noticed that gigs l've witnessed or done with a laptop (not out of choice) are susub par compared to cdj or vinyl sets. There is something about a dj having to look at a computer screen that destroys the dj performance part of it and detracts from the feeling of the set, and again, therefore the performance. For the dj's that are incredibly passive when djing, it doesn't matter as much but is still noticeable. That staring at the screen just removes them from the crowd, and it shows. Also, on another note, I WOULD NEVER just bring a laptop and DVS system for a gig - you always have to take CD's anyway in case there is a problem so why bother with a laptop in the first place. Yeah don't get me wrong, dvs have their benefits but even serato isn't stable 100% of the time and when you're getting paid to play you just can't take that risk IMO. The only system I've used intesively is serato and even that has gone down ocasionally. Combine that with the extra performance aspects of CD's and that's why I prefer (along with many others now it seems) tactile CD or vinyl djing.

Most of the time when Im doing the VDJ thing, I am messing with my midi mixer (VCI-300) and jumping around/dancing, just like you would with a CDJ. The ONLY time I stare at my screen is to load a track, once I am done with that its back to the mixer to beatmatch, etc.

DJ Rann, are you talking about ONLY using a laptop, without a midi mixer?

Its my eventual goal to get the Numark NS7, I think that would be the best of both worlds.

blah blah blah......if you play anything but vinyl ur gay............im just fucking with you, all of it takes time, talent, and of course CASH!!

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Originally posted by DisposableYouth Why do you even have to beatmatch it yourself? [/controversial statement] If beat syncing software had been invented in the 70s, people would think you're mad trying to manually sync 2 tunes now. It's only seen as it is because historically that's how it had to be done. The fact is, beat syncing software has reduced the value of a DJ, whether they use it or not: more people can 'beatmatch' as a result of it... some press a button, others sync it manually, but to the people on the floor it's the same... so what was special about a DJ who can beatmatch is no longer as special. By fairly basic economics, that reduces the value of a DJ, means you can charge less for gigs, makes it harder to stand out and so on. Don't get me wrong, there will always be extra praise given to those who do it manually - in the same way that a turntablist beat juggling gets more praise than someone hitting a loop button to create the same effect. But unless you really feel it adds something to your act, don't feel you have to bow to history and do it manually yourself. Look at other ways you can make your sets special. Note I'm not saying don't beatmatch manually... I still do it myself, partly because I enjoy it a lot more, but just don't take it for granted that to be a 'real DJ', you have to. Just my £2.45

Agreed, totally.

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Originally posted by Schadenfreude you don't have to do anything, but if you learn how to beatmatch yourself you will improve your timing and by default make yourself a better dj in the long run even if you let a program do it for you. a lot of kids that never learn to beatmatch also never learn the basics such as beat counting and phrasing, which make for shitty mixing even when auto beatmatched imo.

Also agreed, but if the world is a just place you'll get shown up for being shit. Unfortunately it isn't and people who can't beatmatch with or without software still get gigs, but naturally they're at a disadvantage because there are at least SOME punters who will realise they're shit.

I do think that learning on vinyl and learning to beatmatch manually teaches you a lot about music and sound itself, but I guess we're also talking about the other side here of people who have done all that in the past and have now switched to pressing the sync button to save them some time and effort. I guess I'm saying the act of using the sync button isn't a problem, but I appreciate there's a lot of benefit from going down the long learning route to get there.

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Originally posted by msz "i" dont think its the same; looking at a dj stare at a laptop. i wanna see him sweat, concentrate harder, almost fuck up once maybe. translates more energy to me.

There is that - plus there's the commonly cited idea that mixing stuff like techno sounds better if it's ever so slightly rough in places, but I'd easily give that up to avoid hearing trainwrecks. I guess you could manually roughen up a synced mix with the right tools - Traktor needs a "DJ intoxication" knob, going from "sober" to "shitfaced"

I guess there's a market for both kinds of DJ and a scale in between. And I don't think staring at a laptop screen should be the problem it is - there are enough innovative controllers out there which would mean you'd never have to look at the screen, certainly not touch a fucking mouse, and yet so many DJs do just stand fairly motionless squinting at the screen, cos if they bang their heads they won't be able to read it!

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Stu Cox |

Last edited by Stu Cox on Nov-05-2009 at 09:53

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Originally posted by Stu Cox I guess you could manually roughen up a synced mix with the right tools - Traktor needs a "DJ intoxication" knob, going from "sober" to "shitfaced"

That is savage! hahahahaha... They should make it an easter egg in the program, or whatever you call those hidden tweaks that programmers include. A blurry screen an offbeat sync button...

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Originally posted by DisposableYouth Why do you even have to beatmatch it yourself? [/controversial statement] If beat syncing software had been invented in the 70s, people would think you're mad trying to manually sync 2 tunes now. It's only seen as it is because historically that's how it had to be done.

You can say that about just about anything. I'm going to go with furniture. Chairs, dressers, cabinets, etc. where all hand-crafted out of necessity centuries ago. Now we have manufacturing to do it for us. However, hand-crafted is still around and is typically seen as higher quality and more expensive. There is a greater level of detail that comes out when something is hand-crafted as opposed to manufactured. Sometimes it is only noticable to the owner though - but it still matters to them. It may be intangible in that respect. And I can tell you that most people do not see someone who hand-crafts furniture as crazy for doing it when it could be done easier; they are usually seen as a skilled craftsman and treated with respect for that skill.

In the end, does it matter though? I can't say. I will tell you that I play exlusively vinyl (simply because it is what I enjoy) and I have Ikea furniture (and my Dad and Grandfather are both skilled craftsmen).

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because vinyl is tangible. you can literally hold your favorite track in your hands and because vinyl had been dominant "back in the old days when EDM was good" so here you have simple associative and emotional grounds

i had SSL and beatport mp3s and i gave it up a couple of years ago to go pure vinyl. even though i don't have much records, they can still bring joy as they are and in the process of their picking, buying, collecting, stacking etc. it doesn't give you more or less creativity as a DJ, it's just personal

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Originally posted by boris_the_bear because vinyl is tangible. you can literally hold your favorite track in your hands and because vinyl had been dominant "back in the old days when EDM was good" so here you have simple associative and emotional grounds i had SSL and beatport mp3s and i gave it up a couple of years ago to go pure vinyl. even though i don't have much records, they can still bring joy as they are and in the process of their picking, buying, collecting, stacking etc. it doesn't give you more or less creativity as a DJ, it's just personal

So what do you do if there's an absolutely amazing track that you want to get and play, but alas...it's only available digitally?

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