quote:

Originally posted by jennypie That would be a great, thought provoking comparison were our two cultures similar. But they're not.

actually it's equally prevalent in india's high society. go to a horseracing track in india, none of the millionaires there ever crack a smile. they are too busy worrying about their money and how to gain more of it. the difference between american society and indian society is that nearly everyone in america worships money and the need for conformity is high. in india, many people have developed that thirst for wealth, but most adhere to the principles of buddhist philosophy that state suffering is caused by desire and ignorance. educate yourself on how to free your thoughts from desire and you will know happiness. it's harder to be poor and happy in america no doubt. there are many more societal pressures that beat the idea of financial success as a measure of self-worth into your psyche, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to cultivate an appreciation for the way things are. maybe you aren't rich, but you have your health, your freedom, your friends, your family, your sanity, your consciousness, your memories, your life and your future going for you. that more than some people can say.

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Last edited by R!CH on Dec-16-2009 at 00:36

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Originally posted by idoru What bothers me is that most people only feel the need to "give" during Christmas. People are just as in need of help during the rest of the year.

I think a lot of people get caught up in their busy lives and kind of forget that there are people out there who need help. Out of sight, out of mind.

But Christmas is a time when a lot of organizations are out lobbying for donations and it's a constant reminder that there are people who can't afford to put food on the table. As a consequence, more people donate.

I will admit that I am not some martyr who has donated a ton of things... I couldn't really afford to - hell I have only been able to afford my own shit in the last couple of years. However, I have given whatever I can when I was reminded that there is someone hungry, or a kid who isn't going to get their cough medicine because their mother can't afford that with basic groceries. Key word - reminded.

Unless there is a reminder, people have the tendency to forget what's going on outside of their own worlds.

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Originally posted by wienerschnitzel i have a hard time donating to families in need, i know it sounds awful, so hear me out. In calgary, i have 2 sister in laws. One lives completely off of welfare/AISH and sits at home with her morphine addiction and smokes ciggarettes and complains about how hard her life is. She lost custody of her 3 children because she is an unfit parent and has some serious mental issues. She is the one i posted the facebook status updates from. She has managed to recieve 3 christmas hampers so far this year with food, gifts for the kids, gifts for her, gift cards for numerous places etc. Alot of families who are really in need didn't get any, but she got 3. The kids live with their dads (2 different dads) and the dads have jobs and make an honest living and provide enough to give the kids a decent christmas. Her kids recieve more gifts then rowan does. That being said, the other sister in law and her husband work low paying jobs, and spend the money they do get on the most premium cable packages, with a tv and reciever in every room, rent a brand new 5 bedroom house with rental assistance (welfare) and buy anything that comes out new like iphones, toys or gaming systems. They are THOUSANDS of dollars in debt in both here and the states, they recieve food orders from both the food bank and our church welfare system and recieve money from people in the church that feel bad for them. It's hard for eli and i to stomach. They are classic examples of people that abuse the system. I know of some families that are REALLY trying to make ends meet and are really struggling and i help those people out instead of leaving it to an organization. I have a hard time trusting people..

I try to think that the few who abuse the system don't outweigh the many who genuinely need help. Maybe that isn't true, but I would rather donate with the chance that 1 person who needs it will get it than not to donate at all.

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Originally posted by Arbiter I've got to agree with R!CH here. Even the most impoverished Ugandans that I've met seem to be generally happier than the people I see commuting into DC each morning. It's pretty ignorant to paint them as being miserable and bitter.

You have to consider their socialization, the fact that they don't live in possession obsessed societies, the fact that they don't have a million pressures on them day to day to work faster, harder, more efficiently in a world that seems to just zip by.

Westerners are some of the unhappiest people in the world because they have pretty much become machines. Little time to be with family, little time to sleep or wind down, compounding pressures to perform and have "stuff" that people judge and base your worth upon. A cultural obsession with appearance and social status etc. etc.

So while I will agree that there are a lot of unhappy people with everything they could possibly need who should appreciate what they do have, the context that the statement was made in was stupid. When we're talking about people who don't have the things they need, telling them to suck it up and appreciate what they have is ridiculous. Sure, they may be or seem happier, but it doesn't mean their stomachs aren't growling from hunger.

i think it's probably close to a 50/50 split of those who are trying to make ends meet but need help and those that abuse the system so they don't have to work as hard or just freeload. i'm not suggesting people shouldn't help at all, but i would just be aware of who you are helping, or at least be ok with your donations possibly going to someone who doesn't need it.

quote:

Originally posted by leph555 or you can give them an extreme home makeover

God I love this show.

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quote:

Originally posted by wienerschnitzel i have a hard time donating to families in need, i know it sounds awful, so hear me out. In calgary, i have 2 sister in laws. One lives completely off of welfare/AISH and sits at home with her morphine addiction and smokes ciggarettes and complains about how hard her life is. She lost custody of her 3 children because she is an unfit parent and has some serious mental issues. She is the one i posted the facebook status updates from. She has managed to recieve 3 christmas hampers so far this year with food, gifts for the kids, gifts for her, gift cards for numerous places etc. Alot of families who are really in need didn't get any, but she got 3. The kids live with their dads (2 different dads) and the dads have jobs and make an honest living and provide enough to give the kids a decent christmas. Her kids recieve more gifts then rowan does. That being said, the other sister in law and her husband work low paying jobs, and spend the money they do get on the most premium cable packages, with a tv and reciever in every room, rent a brand new 5 bedroom house with rental assistance (welfare) and buy anything that comes out new like iphones, toys or gaming systems. They are THOUSANDS of dollars in debt in both here and the states, they recieve food orders from both the food bank and our church welfare system and recieve money from people in the church that feel bad for them. It's hard for eli and i to stomach. They are classic examples of people that abuse the system. I know of some families that are REALLY trying to make ends meet and are really struggling and i help those people out instead of leaving it to an organization. I have a hard time trusting people..

welcome to the uk. that's how people here are, they sponge and just breed like mad for money purposes. it gets them up the list in housing and stuff and then people who're having a hard time & need some help can't get it. I was given no help with finding a place to rent because I'm not a priority cos i dont have kids coming out of my orafices or come from romania.

well ian i reckon you may feel right at home when you visit alberta.. lol

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Originally posted by R!CH but you have your health, your freedom, your friends, your family, your sanity, your consciousness, your memories, your life and your future going for you.

You can't assume that all people have all of those things, lol.

I'd rather be homeless in alberta. I'm getting packages from theresa then! Here all I'd get would be glassed in the street for being homeless!

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Originally posted by Theresa You have to consider their socialization, the fact that they don't live in possession obsessed societies, the fact that they don't have a million pressures on them day to day to work faster, harder, more efficiently in a world that seems to just zip by. Westerners are some of the unhappiest people in the world because they have pretty much become machines. Little time to be with family, little time to sleep or wind down, compounding pressures to perform and have "stuff" that people judge and base your worth upon. A cultural obsession with appearance and social status etc. etc. So while I will agree that there are a lot of unhappy people with everything they could possibly need who should appreciate what they do have, the context that the statement was made in was stupid. When we're talking about people who don't have the things they need, telling them to suck it up and appreciate what they have is ridiculous. Sure, they may be or seem happier, but it doesn't mean their stomachs aren't growling from hunger.

but how does cultivating this socialized behavior of gift-giving every december help those in need achieve true happiness? aren't you reinforcing the idea to their children?

imo "toys" as a gesture of love is misguided. studies show that no matter how expensive, nice or desirable a "toy" gift, the joy someone derives from that gesture fades in a matter of 3 months. if you give your bf an brand new iphone, he'll love you for it for up to 90 days every time he looks at it, but after that time it just becomes his phone. the longest lasting gifts are the experiential ones. a $400 weekend getaway will last longer and mean more based upon the memories created than a $400 gadget. just some unrelated food for thought.

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This is all beginning to sound like an Ayn Rand novel.

ian you can come live with me if i'm having twins but you have to help me take care of them.. you can be my live-in uk nanny.

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Originally posted by R!CH but you have your health, your freedom, your friends, your family, your sanity, your consciousness, your memories, your life and your future going for you. that more than some people can say.

dammit. you had to rub it in.