i may be telling a bunch of nonsense but ill test at home to be sure

quote:

Originally posted by DEAD_MOOSE If it wasn't ok to use the master volume there wouldn't be one would there! Osmodior. What the hell are you on about?

lol.. all i've said is that "in my experience" if the master fader is lowered too far my output files have been quiet. I'm not talking theoretically, i'm talking about my past experience.

If you google 'cubase mixdown volume' you will find other people with the same problem. For me, it was fixed (on peer advice) simply by lowering the other channels, and raising the master fader. This made a noticeable difference to the levels of my output files, even tho the apparent volume during in-project playback stayed approximately the same.

Regardless of the reasons behind it, my advice to the OP was essentially to try and leave the master fader up and control the mix with the individual channels instead, and since this idea has been challenged by a couple of people i've done a quick google and almost instantly found a resource that supports this notion, so it's not complete nonsense.

"Keep your levels in check and use groups if needed to ensure the overall level being fed to your master output is well below 0db. Aim to finish your mix with the master fader at Unity gain (0db) with around 3-4db of headroom."

(Step 7 - Preserve Headroom)
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials...-your-mix-down/

In the end it doesn't matter, it's just a suggestion i'm making based on my past experiences, the OP can take it or leave it as he see's fit.

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quote:

Originally posted by Osmodiar lol.. all i've said is that "in my experience" if the master fader is lowered too far my output files have been quiet. I'm not talking theoretically, i'm talking about my past experience. If you google 'cubase mixdown volume' you will find other people with the same problem. For me, it was fixed (on peer advice) simply by lowering the other channels, and raising the master fader. This made a noticeable difference to the levels of my output files, even tho the apparent volume during in-project playback stayed approximately the same. Regardless of the reasons behind it, my advice to the OP was essentially to try and leave the master fader up and control the mix with the individual channels instead, and since this idea has been challenged by a couple of people i've done a quick google and almost instantly found a resource that supports this notion, so it's not complete nonsense. "Keep your levels in check and use groups if needed to ensure the overall level being fed to your master output is well below 0db. Aim to finish your mix with the master fader at Unity gain (0db) with around 3-4db of headroom." (Step 7 - Preserve Headroom) http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials...-your-mix-down/ In the end it doesn't matter, it's just a suggestion i'm making based on my past experiences, the OP can take it or leave it as he see's fit.

I'm too tired to search around, but that quote is wrong for DAWs. The master fader in a DAW is nothing like the one on an analog console. Search gearslutz, kvr,.... I remember the freaking designer of the Neve console explaining this on gearslutz (if you care to search around) and the dude from Steinberg that actually made Cubase and now Studio One.

Generally, one shouldn't have to adjust the Master fader if one's individual channels are set to appropriate levels.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Cenik Generally, one shouldn't have to adjust the Master fader if one's individual channels are set to appropriate levels.

Exactly. vikerness, did you follow the resource i linked? it is 100% talking about software, not analogue stuff.

If you keep pulling down the master fader until all your peaks are below the 0db point, then the non-peak sections of your track will be too quiet in your output file. If instead of reaching for the quick fix master fader, you go through your individual channels and find the tracks that are causing the peaks, and use some subtle compression on them or otherwise bring their levels down into the mix, then you fix the clipping problems without lowering ALL your levels via the master because of a few peaks on some channels.

It makes perfect sense to me..

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Last edited by Osmodiar on Feb-10-2010 at 00:38

WFT? This again?

Pulling down the master fader for an ITB situation is technically not an issue in a DAW because it's a 32 point floating system and there's no resolution loss by doing so.

However, it's kind of bad practice for the following reasons:

1, If you even have to use analogue hardware, pulling down down the master is an absolute no-no unless you really are a ninja.

2, Why would you need to? Pulling down your track faders has exactly the same outcome as pulling down the master, so don't be lazy, get your mix right in the first place.

3, On some DAw's the plugins return on them master channel are post fader, meaning if you pull it down your balance of tracks vs Master FX is going to be screwed.

4, You could overloading a track or the bus, and if you are, pulling down the master will just make it quieter, not fix the digital distortion you've just introduced.

Personally, i I feel it's just good practice to learn and maintain gain staging - there's no reason why you can't produce a perfect mix to unity gain and if you have to pull down the master then you're not accomplished/knowledgable enough. Yes, there ARE circumstances where's it's necessary/useful but my feeling is, if you're having to ask "should I" then you don't know enough to be considering it.

And what the shit is this about cubase having 6db of headroom?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN WFT? This again? However, it's kind of bad practice for the following reasons: don't be lazy, get your mix right in the first place. if you're having to ask "should I" then you don't know enough to be considering it. And what the shit is this about cubase having 6db of headroom?

Well said!

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quote:

Originally posted by Osmodiar but yeah with cubase i think it is better to leave your master at 0db and adjust the individual channels (which you can link and do all at once to retain the relative differences).

how do you do this mate ?

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quote:

Originally posted by djandymac how do you do this mate ?

To link channels, first go to the mixer window and click on one the first channel you want to include (being careful not to click on any of the controls or editable settings). Then Shift-click on the last channel to select all those between it and the first, and/or Ctrl-click to add other channels that don't follow in sequence in the mixer. The channels you want to link should now be highlighted in the mixer. Now right-click on the background on one of the channels (somewhere near one of the faders is good — but avoid right-clicking the pan pots as this accesses a different function on stereo tracks) and select 'Link Channels'. Now, when you select a different channel, and then reselect one of the linked ones, you should notice that all of the linked channels will be highlighted in the mixer.

RANN's got the right advice.

I also thought that the audio summing (and dithering, if used) will yield a different result if the master fader is not at unity gain (0dB). that is, the algorithm is changed, and your resolution will be applied to quieter parts in the mix, upon export. I think this question is posed to rann.

quote:

Originally posted by Kthought RANN's got the right advice. I also thought that the audio summing (and dithering, if used) will yield a different result if the master fader is not at unity gain (0dB). that is, the algorithm is changed, and your resolution will be applied to quieter parts in the mix, upon export. I think this question is posed to rann.

I've been saying it since page 1 but sure give hime the credit, lol

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Aplogoies, then I agree with Osmo too. :P