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Originally posted by The17sss "Forget economic reality, I want me benefits" -John Q. Democrat History was indeed made today... for the first time in U.S. history, major legislation was passed that undermined a vast majority of the people's wishes. 234 years as a representative republic is over- and I'm not being melodramatic; those Americans on here that believe it's fine for the politicians that WE elect to not actually represent those who elected them... well, you know the rest. This is what you voted for; all these comments are from the last few days: But it's for our own good... what do we know? Mark Steyn sums it up best:

We want to increase and facilitate access to healthcare for people in this country, the fucking horror!!

You can talk all the shit you want and pull any number of bullshit quotes from our joke of a political discourse in this country up, it doesn't change the bottom line. We need healthcare reform, whether or not half this country was brainwashed into thinking this is a communist trojan horse, or that they're gonna pull the plug on grandma, or this is part of Obama's Nazi agenda.

The rest of the civilized world is doing just fine providing a basic level of care to ALL citizens.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis We want to increase and facilitate access to healthcare for people in this country, the fucking horror!! You can talk all the shit you want and pull any number of bullshit quotes from our joke of a political discourse in this country up, it doesn't change the bottom line. We need healthcare reform, whether or not half this country was brainwashed into thinking this is a communist trojan horse, or that they're gonna pull the plug on grandma, or this is part of Obama's Nazi agenda. The rest of the civilized world is doing just fine providing a basic level of care to ALL citizens.

Don't get testy Clovis. You and I both agree that: A) we need reform of the industry bigtime, and B) increasing access to healthcare for people is the right thing to do.

We just disagree on the form (and process) that this bill has taken. And, evidently you are ok with elected officials not representing their constituents.... which to me is even more foreboding.

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Originally posted by The17sss We just disagree on the form (and process) that this bill has taken.

How would you suggest the process was carried?

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Originally posted by wotyzoid How would you suggest the process was carried?

lol... good lord. I don't have time to rehash this conversation. It's been going on for a year.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN don't be sad champ, you're an awesome bloke til politics crops up in conversation.

Bahaha so true!
I like the guy but as soon as he starts talking anything political, I want to take a sledge hammer to my face and his.

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Originally posted by The17sss ... for the first time in U.S. history, major legislation was passed that undermined a vast majority of the people's wishes...

Show me some numbers. I'm not doubting you, I just want to make sure that you have hard data readily available to back up your claims.

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... those Americans on here that believe it's fine for the politicians that WE elect to not actually represent those who elected them...

Yeah, because everybody knowing that Obama wanted to revamp health care and then electing him into office means that the majority was misrepresented. Sure, I guess that seems logical enough... doesn't it?

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Originally posted by Fledz I want to take a sledge hammer to my face and his.

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Originally posted by The17sss lol... good lord. I don't have time to rehash this conversation. It's been going on for a year.

If you can't summarize something as a preferable way you would have liked the reform of heath care carried it comes off to me as you not having any thoughts of your own. Maybe that's why you are seen as a clueless hag when it comes to political discussion.

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Originally posted by The17sss Don't get testy Clovis. You and I both agree that: A) we need reform of the industry bigtime, and B) increasing access to healthcare for people is the right thing to do. We just disagree on the form (and process) that this bill has taken. And, evidently you are ok with elected officials not representing their constituents.... which to me is even more foreboding.

If you agreed, you would have fixed it already.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

I am no expert on health care platforms, or what the situation is in the U.S. with this reform but...

Change has to start somewhere. People hate change and will do anything and everything to stop change from happening, even when it's really needed. With that being said, perhaps the reform is not perfect, and maybe it wont work as well as it could, but at least it is a step in the right direction. The U.S. desperately needs a health care reform and maybe this will be the catalyst that gets the U.S. to a place it needs to be. It's better than doing nothing at all and saying that change is too hard or whatever and staying with what doesn't work.

Personally, I am happy for the U.S. that at least in terms of better health care, the ball is now rolling.

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Originally posted by idoru Show me some numbers. I'm not doubting you, I just want to make sure that you have hard data readily available to back up your claims.

Just google Rasmussen, Gallup, PPP, etc. and it will show. There's no ambiguity.

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Yeah, because everybody knowing that Obama wanted to revamp health care and then electing him into office means that the majority was misrepresented. Sure, I guess that seems logical enough... doesn't it?

Well, yes... because in the beginning they did support him. But as the process went on, and more of the bill's content became available, buyer's remorse among the population began to set in; they didn't know "this" is what they were going to get. But even after support plummeted, they still marched on, defying the wishes of the people. This is the difference between Obama and Clinton; in 1994 when the GOP took over the House and Congress, he finally listened to his top advisor Dick Morris and realized he had to become more centrist or lose his 1996 re-election. This time, the Dems are willing to blow up their political careers to pass this. Crazy IMO, but they've been dreaming of this for 100 years; they can relax now because short term losses don't matter. From here on out, it's just going to be a matter of which party that happens to be in power can better manage it.