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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe
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| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
it was something like...
...in the last 10 years, Palestinian suicide bombers have been directly responsible for 50 something deaths inside Israel, and in retaliation, surface-to-surface rocket attacks by Israel on 'suspected militant locations' inside Palestine has resulted in over 2300 civilian deaths....
50 to 2300...that's a pretty disgusting ratio... |
Figures don't lie (although these ones are wrong), but liars can figure.
First of all, the actual number of terrorist-related deaths in Israel during the past 10 years is about 1200, with about 2/3 of those being civilians, and another 8000 wounded. (Source - and please don't be a loser and scream "bias", there's a detailed account of every incident that can be cross-checked with media sources)
Second, everyone in Palestine is a "civilian" - that is the problem. There is no Palestinian military or security force. Terrorists are lumped into the same category as innocent bystanders, they wear civilian clothes and even hide in densely-populated civilian locations while they fire rockets. So it should come as no surprise that there are a high number of "civilian" deaths in Palestine.
Third, the fact that the Israeli death count is lower than the Palestinian death count is not for lack of trying on the part of Palestinians; the fact that they are less effective at actually killing their targets (Israelis in the border towns are never more than 5 minutes away from a bomb shelter) does not make them any less responsible.
So thank you for the incorrect and ultimately very uninteresting second-hand statistic.
___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here
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 Mar-24-2010 23:10 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada
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| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
You obviously don't follow the politics there to any extent. Beware of drawing too many conclusions from a few out-of-context articles.
Israel has not substantively changed any of its policies, with the notable exception of playing the Obama administration's recent games, ceding control of certain territories and - originally - stopping new construction as requested. That led them to where they are now - more violence, more rocket attacks, and more pressure from Obama to cede even more territory and give into even more demands. On the flip side, not a single serious demand has been made against the Palestinians - like, for example, I don't know, stop shooting rockets into Israeli cities?
So try, for a moment, to put yourself in Netanyahu's shoes (and I know, it's hard to feel any sympathy for the jooooos!). Obama now appears to be playing the exact same shady political games that the Palestinians have been playing for the past 20 years, and has now escalated to demands that are absolute non-starters, such as negotiating a "right of return." These simply aren't negotiable, and Obama knows that - or else he's even stupider than I could possibly have imagined.
No other U.S. president, Democrat or Republican, has ever tried to be more than a "mediator" in the dispute. Suddenly, the good ole' USA starts putting pressure on Israel to throw the match, at the same time that domestic terrorist activity has already been starting to escalate. The actual likelihood of any party being interested in a peaceful and equitable solution is vanishingly small.
So what would you do, in his position? Give into further demands, stop construction that has already started, release more prisoners, cede control of more territories, and bring Hamas back to the "negotiating" table, all with the knowledge that this would at best result in an ephemeral pause in the "violence" that already exists? Hezbollah's already been in on the fight; the "threat" of them starting up again isn't news.
Or would you simply reject such demands out-of-hand - knowing full well that it can't make the terrorism situation much worse than it already is - and risk possibly souring relations with a U.S. president who's already clearly communicated that he's not batting for them anyway?
Ultimately the only nation that this is really going to hurt is the U.S., because Israel is their proxy against Iran. Obama has already proven, to himself and to the public, that he is not capable of achieving his aims by diplomacy alone. He naïvely believes that by souring relations with Israel, Iran and the other Arab states will somehow be more likely to cooperate with America. He knows that Israel cannot and will not accept the new demands, which is precisely why he's made them.
Israel really does not have much choice in the matter; they can either accept a completely unreasonable set of demands (and receive nothing in return), or reject them and risk negative publicity, oh wait, they already have that. Really tough choice there. |
A typical Digi commment. what? you want us to feel sorry for Israel? not goona happen. After all these land take overs the Palestians have every right to fight back. Dont tell me you expect them to sit back and watch Israel build new houses over their own land.
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Mystic Mind - DJ Mixes
http://soundcloud.com/mystic-mind
Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/DJMysticMind
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Mar-24-2010 23:48 
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!
Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe
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| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed or something? It's one thing if you don't agree with the statistics, but no need to be a c**t about it.
I merely contributed something that IF true, would be something quite significant. If you think the figures are skewed (and they very well could be), then express it and tell us why, their is no need to be calling me out or whatever your trying to do here, I'm just relaying something I found interesting and I've always considered Ross Kemp to be a fairly unbiased journalist, perhaps I'll think twice from now on. |
The parenthetical wasn't directed specifically at you, it's just something that many other people on this forum have a tendency to do. In that sense, it was pre-emptive.
As for the rest... well, not trying to be a "c**t" here, but I do have a kind of a thing about statistics that appear to be made-up, taken out of context, or both. I'm not questioning your intent or Ross Kemp's - just the specific information that was presented in that post.
No hard feelings, no offense intended, just trying to set the record straight.
___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here
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Mar-24-2010 23:51
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