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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > My "people better start buying music" rant (RANT INSIDE)
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adi_hanson
feels a newbie.



Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Blackburn

quote:
Originally posted by user19503
r u comparing big macs with edm? haha big macs has been the same all my life man, its almost the most constant thing in my life, everything rotates around it, when everything goes to hell i can always go back to mcdonalds and think "its gonna be ok man, just start over from here".
i never really bought alot of music before 2003 when getting turntables, then i used all my money on vinyl (well i bought alot in 94 because everything rocked back then). albums wasnt really my thing (except prodigy) before lately, and now the last year ive started buying albums again, CD format. lol. new high-end CD-player too. probably because i have time listening to a whole album now compared to before when all my time was spend searching for awesome vinyl. i miss vinyl though, planning on getting a second hand 1210, connect it to my new awesome stereo and just go emo on the floor with my old vinyls, requiem for a dream style, lol


Well , not litterally Big Macs :-)
But more the mindset of travelling to one place and spending cash in contrast of going to many and spending little.
I still do buy CD albums for the car.But not at the rate of 40 per day like some said about beatport Daily single releases.


___________________

Bring on my soundcloud ya!

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:10  England
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Zak McKracken
Trance



Registered: Jun 2003
Location:

did u buy 40 quarter pounders a day when macdonalds first arrived?

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:14 
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

Are you certain - truly certain - that this is because people aren't buying their music?

Or, could it possibly be because (a) the market has become saturated, and (b) the scene itself is simply shrinking as the scenesters grow older?

The cash flow is naturally going to dwindle when you're suddenly competing against 38,214 "me-too" labels while the customer base has shrunk by 50%.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:16  Canada
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adi_hanson
feels a newbie.



Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Blackburn

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut

(a) the market has become saturated


___________________

Bring on my soundcloud ya!

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:17  England
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Kismet7
nononoyesyesyesnonono



Registered: Dec 2008
Location: earf

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
Are you certain - truly certain - that this is because people aren't buying their music?

Or, could it possibly be because (a) the market has become saturated, and (b) the scene itself is simply shrinking as the scenesters grow older?

The cash flow is naturally going to dwindle when you're suddenly competing against 38,214 "me-too" labels while the customer base has shrunk by 50%.


Saturation was already discussed, and makes almost no sense at all. Its almost as bad as the "piracy hurts teh salez" lie.


___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Last edited by Kismet7 on Mar-25-2010 at 13:34

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:51  United States
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EddieZilker
This is the dance.



Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Marijuana Sex Camp

quote:
Originally posted by orTofønChiLd
after reading this i concur, analogue is better than digital














Unless you use analogue saturation VST's.

Yeah... And sorry, Steven. You and I are on the same page, a bit, but I'm pretty much giving my shit away. I doubt, highly, that I'm lowering scarcity of the top-notch, quality beats out there by offering free, full down-loads of my music, but to say that it's not the economy seems dubious.

For starters, I have been pretty unemployed for the past three years. I won't get into the details but I will say that I've been on several job interviews; have been told, outright, that my resume' over-qualifies me for the part-time, minimum wage jobs to which I have been reduced to applying for - even with the three-year gap in my employment history (although I suspect that does discourage being heaped with the yes pile). In short, even though I still apply for the jobs which I know, full-well, I am capable of, I'm also applying for jobs I've done years ago - stuff that I absolutely swore I would never do, again. And still - nothing.

What that means for me is that I don't have the funds to purchase equipment - even software - that would make my work as a producer easier and also fundamentally better. It might be a poor workman who blames his tools, but let me tell you that, having upgraded from Project 5 to Sonar, has been like turning on a light in the area of quality, in-so-far as music production is concerned. Having upgraded my computer and DAW have shaved what must have been hours off of my work-flow and has eliminated many of the steps I used to have to take in order to obtain the quality I thought should be offered. My current upgrade, notwithstanding, the difference between what I can do, right now, and what I'd like to be able to do has a lot to do with procuring more hardware to include a computer strictly dedicated as a DAW - more robust and expensive than this cross-trainer I'm currently using.

I am far from the arrogant American Idol contestant vainly attempting to tell Simon Cowel (prospected label owners, distributors, or the general public for that matter) that, I am the next Paul van Dyke, and he is making a serious mistake for not supporting me. Fact is that I take risks in adopting the style I've adopted; that even without my unflinching preference for break-beat, I tend to be somewhat more unorthodox than most producers, and that it's been difficult bringing it to a receptive market, all things considered. There are also mistakes, I'm sure I'm making (both in marketing and in music), that unaddressed hinder the quality of material I make available - even considering my meager kit.

All told, however, I'm very much the self-contained operation. When I'm not working on music, I'm working on graphics for album covers or trying to figure out how to develop my currently appalling face-book page (and, of course, filling out applications and doing job-interviews for part-time post-renter, apartment cleaning and gas-station-attendant - among the jobs I have applied for the week before last). I have listened to several reports by NPR's On the Media that music industry is suck and then heard just as many reviews of music on NPR, among other media, which were absolutely glowing about music I (like to think I) could have done better, using Project 5 and my old Pentium 4 computer. It is irksome when Rolling Stone Magazine refers to a face-book page where some ass-hole's player is chock full of shit it would take me ten minutes, from start to finish, to make - and better than that ass-hole did.

This must be the second thread, this week, where someone has posted a complaint from the industry perspective, griping about the state of things. It's either a lack of talent or a lack of funds or a lack of something and, while I find several areas of my life lacking, I also don't complain about them and can easily realize that about 90% of it is within my dominion to do something about.

I hear a lot about unemployed people who just do nothing, at all, because they have given up. They do nothing about their situation, because they have nothing they think they can do. I am not that man. Pretty much every waking hour, I am up to something and I am still squirming financially - but at least I don't complain about it.

You complain about the industry being in dire shape, but I'll submit, just by virtue of the Rolling Stone article pointing to a sub-par producer, that those at the reigns of the industry aren't exactly doing all the right things. Never-minding poor, little, old me, there are people here, posting on this board and in this thread, no less, who should have easily been the subject(s) of that article - and yet those connections aren't being made.

If you want to know the reasons for your troubles, I'll submit my opinion that they are poor taste in conjunction with an acceptable level of mediocrity. Scott Hardkiss, even though I don't blame you, specifically, is an excellent example of that. Assholes like him don't exactly raise the bar for the rest of us. Now, I haven't heard you spin and I haven't heard your productions, but you're in here, complaining about a sorry state of affairs.

It's a competition and I freely admit that I am, somewhat humbly, at the bottom of the food chain. That said, I have no schadenfreude for you at the top, middle, or wherever you are, even though you seem to be bleating about your revenue projections and there's blood in the water. I also don't really care, lest you turn yourself into the hiring manager I've been looking for, that you succeed.

What's safe to say is that I think that label owners, in some measure, are part of the problem. Another part of the problem is that, while it takes a monumental effort to make a really good song, it takes a very minimal effort to make music which is as disposable as it is danceable to by the club goers who drink themselves imbecilic, every weekend.

I'll submit that I'm a little ticked off to find you bitching in this forum when I try pretty hard at what I do and don't. I'm not saying that you don't try hard, either. Luck is the residue of effort, after-all. But please, don't advertise that you're part of the problem you've been profiting off of for quite a while and then, as things seem to be heading south, come and bitch about the net result.


___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:56  United States
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Kismet7
nononoyesyesyesnonono



Registered: Dec 2008
Location: earf

http://www.beatportal.com/feed/item...eatport-mobile/

Looks like EDM sales are going to get a nice bump. Put this in the absolute growth pile that keeps rising.


___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Old Post Mar-24-2010 22:57  United States
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by Kismet7
Saturation was already discussed, and makes almost no sense at all. Its actually worse than the "piracy hurts teh salez" lie.

If by "discussed" you mean your claim to the effect of "sure, there are a lot of labels/producers but most of them suck", then I would say that (a) you have no facts to support your claim, and (b) it's ultimately a red herring anyway because the consumers need to know the difference.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Old Post Mar-24-2010 23:15  Canada
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Kismet7
nononoyesyesyesnonono



Registered: Dec 2008
Location: earf

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
If by "discussed" you mean your claim to the effect of "sure, there are a lot of labels/producers but most of them suck", then I would say that (a) you have no facts to support your claim, and (b) it's ultimately a red herring anyway because the consumers need to know the difference.


...I dont think I said something so vague.

A)Are you sure you read what I said about saturation in my chef analogy?
B)Did you understand what was said about saturation?
C)Make a decent economic impact case for 'saturation' in relation to EDM and factors involved around EDM and its consumers.

How does joe blow label affect the sales of Planet E? IF it does at all, to what amount? How does 7000th joe blow label affect the sales of Cocoon?

I'll do C for you, a buncha labels sitting on a server dont really saturate the market, they just hold up easily skippable and forgetable space. Labels and Artists become big enough brands that the consumer...who buys the most music follows those labels and brands, due to their quality of product and marketing. 70,000 shit labels wont dip into those sales. But i'd love to hear how saturation affects digital distribution of good labels + music, and somehow changes the psychology and needs of the consumer.


___________________
_____________________________________
commercial and underground electronic music (house/techno/trance/other) will surpass today's hip hop/pop/rock/country in worldwide interest...if it has'nt already.

Old Post Mar-25-2010 00:24  United States
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by Kismet7
I'll do C for you, a buncha labels sitting on a server dont really saturate the market, they just hold up easily skippable and forgetable space. Labels and Artists become big enough brands that the consumer...who buys the most music follows those labels and brands, due to their quality of product and marketing. 70,000 shit labels wont dip into those sales. But i'd love to hear how saturation affects digital distribution of good labels + music, and somehow changes the psychology and needs of the consumer.

Again, where's your evidence for this claim? Your assumption seems to be predicated on some sort of loyalty concept, but DJs and listeners in this scene are fleeting.

If I'm standing in front of a supermarket shelf looking for, I don't know, breakfast cereal, and I've never bought any before, or maybe I've only ever bought one or two different kinds before, how do I choose one of the 300 boxes sitting in front of me? The answer is: Randomly.

Simply saying these things that you say does not make them true. In virtually every market, a surfeit of supply hurts average profitability, irrespective of differences in quality or even cost (although the smaller the difference, the more the effect is magnified, obviously). Consumers have a limited spending pool, and when you bombard them with choices, it will eventually erode revenue for the big guys.

It's the reason why big suppliers always like to negotiate long-term, high-volume, exclusive or semi-exclusive contracts with distributors and retailers; they don't want their products to be on the shelf with 50 other versions of the same thing. The economics of big business are broken with digital distribution because anybody can get their wares onto the shelf.


___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Last edited by DigiNut on Mar-25-2010 at 02:14

Old Post Mar-25-2010 01:27  Canada
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DjStephenWiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Columbus, OH

quote:
Originally posted by Kismet7
Stephenwiley...you see that? Can you take your cheap credibilty and lacking knowledge about EDM industry, and dunk it into a recycle bin.

And Sonic, your right there are more chefs in the kitchen now, but there are still only a select group of good chefs...and people still want to eat the best food they can for their money. Why would they buy food made by the shit chefs when they can buy the best food for the same price from the best chefs? So those good chefs still make great food and in turn great sales, even though there are many more chefs in the kitchen. There is exactly NO reason for sales to stretch like you say they stretch. Bad product gets ignored no matter how many chefs are in the kitchen, because the price margin between good music and bad music, is very minimal, so the best product put out by the best makers (label+artist) should and will keep selling.

While you're theory is reasonable, it does not account for real world results when there are more choices. There are dozens of shoe makers, most people just buy from 2 or 3 shoe companies, because those 2 or 3 put out the best product and best marketing. The lesser companies dont. Sames goes for EDM, labels run by StephenWiley dont sell because...they're in NO position to.

The best indie labels, with the best product, result in the bigggest following. Like I said before, EDM industry is like comic books, people become religous fans of artists or labels and buy their product when its available. The absolute idea that EDM does not sell, is absolute propaganda.


You really do have no clue :/ Always funny to see somebody with such a strong opinion who knows nothing about what they're speaking of. Perhaps you should try talking to somebody who actually sells dance music (artist or label owner), that is, if you know anyone who does.


Continue.

Old Post Mar-25-2010 02:26  United States
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DjStephenWiley
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Columbus, OH

quote:
Originally posted by owien
i think story teller is right people want more bang for their buck and this meens writing and making better tunes.


More bang for the buck?

Were you around when you had to buy vinyl and new needles on the regular?

Being a DJ used to actually mean something (Hard to believe, I know)

Old Post Mar-25-2010 02:29  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > My "people better start buying music" rant (RANT INSIDE)
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