Yeah Europe has got a long history but the Americans have had their fair share of wars in the last 200 odd years.

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quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Can you euro-fags get back to doing what you do best, killing each other on levels not seen anywhere else ever?

as opposed to you US-fags who have been pretty much at a state of war for 200-odd years straight?



*edit - whoops, Simon_N beat me

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But clearly the Us-fags are doing it better, havin realized that a war is much nicer when it isn't taking place in your own country. I bet Bush would never have gotten through with his Iraq war if the American people had experienced something like WW2 or Vietnam not overseas but on their very own soil.

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quote:

Originally posted by MGT Define shitty country.

North Korea
Somalia
United States of America

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Not to go super-defending the US, but the wars we have out right started you can count on one hand.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it goes something like this...

Revolutionary War
Spanish-American War
Afghanistan
Iraq

Lets see now... Europe has also had been in a constant state of war till 1945. When I say war I mean waaaar like massive war involving invading armies and nation state on nation state. Yes the Balkans were a war, and yes it was horrible, but compared to previous conflicts on the European continent it was pretty small. How many European started wars has the US been in on?


As for comparisons to the US on the financial crisis. Yes you are right. It is our fault, but you can't scapegoat us either for everything unless you are admitting that we somehow control all your governments, which I really do not think is the case.

The problem is that the US has a federal system to manage and maintain its economies and currency on a country wide level. Our states can make their own decisions on a huge number of things but really the Fed gets the last call. Thats why its hard for one state to bring down the entire union. States can also not hold foreign debt in the same way that the federal government can here.

The EU and the Eurozone in many ways try to replicate this, but lack the over-riding power of a federal entity because the EU member states are sovereign nations, different cultures and people, and with good right not bound by the super tight binding regulations that the US federal government has over its states.

Not only that, the EU was formed and the Eurozone was formed with already developed countries coming in. Their economic basis in many cases was not vetted closely enough, not nearly as close as something far less encompassing as say NATO membership is. So you have countries like Greece, that have always had substantial economic problems at a very fundamental level (as in no one pays taxes) and their burden becomes the burden of the other EU and Eurozone members. Where as if this is the case in the US we have a few options to mitigate the damage and also the more supreme authority of the federal government, the EU members are much more complex entities that, again, do not have that binding obligation, or at least not the binding obligation rooted in history and camaraderie that the US has (we have gone to war between our member states once in our 240 year history, Europe has done it multiple times in the last 100 years).

Correct me on how any of this is wrong? I think that this is a pretty factual account of the structures of both organizations compared fairly. Also I am not just making this shit up, read any news organizations accounts, read the accounts coming from your own European governments, and they will fall mostly in line with what I have described and I am saying.

You forgot Vietnam

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quote:

Originally posted by jonSun You forgot Vietnam

No, I do not count that. France had for almost a decade been fighting a counter-insurgency and large scale communist guerrilla movement in Indochina. We put advisors in on the ground there and were swept up in it. I consider that a European started war. Granted the political climate of the time made our involvement a guarantee, and we didn't have to be there in the first place, but if the French hadn't been fighting the end of colonialism tooth and nail (they were waging a pretty brutal campaign in Algeria at the same time) we wouldn't have had the motivation to go in and continue to try and prop up a failing and falling corrupt South Vietnamese regime.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Lets see now... Europe has also had been in a constant state of war till 1945.

well duh. that's what you get when you cram a whole lot of different nations on top of each other. your comparison to the US is disingenuity of the highest order.

fuck...im tired, is that even a word?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well duh. that's what you get when you cram a whole lot of different nations on top of each other. your comparison to the US is disingenuity of the highest order. fuck...im tired, is that even a word?

Actually you just backed the whole entire rest of my post. Thanks PKC!

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby No, I do not count that. France had for almost a decade been fighting a counter-insurgency and large scale communist guerrilla movement in Indochina. We put advisors in on the ground there and were swept up in it. I consider that a European started war. Granted the political climate of the time made our involvement a guarantee, and we didn't have to be there in the first place, but if the French hadn't been fighting the end of colonialism tooth and nail (they were waging a pretty brutal campaign in Algeria at the same time) we wouldn't have had the motivation to go in and continue to try and prop up a failing and falling corrupt South Vietnamese regime.

I understand where your coming from but I look at it as Saigon would have had incidents & maybe a battle or two. But we went in there & started a 10 year run of death, rape & complete destruction. But im not knocking your point of view & I could possibly sway that direction after a beer or two.

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also: The war of 1812, which you guys lost nou.

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