quote:

Originally posted by ivofivo Depending on where and how we are raised, our tendencies differ from one another. What I am implying is, we are ultimately the same. When our Mother tells us stories, tells us things to watch out for, tells us about pain...we generate an instinct or rather an inevitable brain function of making our own choices. Depending on the relationship and the understanding of your folks, people you are surrounded with as a kid, and what you experience...can be veiwed as variables, which alter our perception of choices later in life.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but there's a limit as to how much we (can) differ from one another. I can't think of a single society wherein the norm is to hang out with people you'd rather drown, for example. Or a society in which you're not allowed to spend time along with people you care for.

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Hmmm, would you lot consider someone on TA (exclusively) a friend? I don't know whether any of you exist, but emotionally, I do feel attached.


paperbag831

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira I wholeheartedly agree with you, but there's a limit as to how much we (can) differ from one another. I can't think of a single society wherein the norm is to hang out with people you'd rather drown, for example. Or a society in which you're not allowed to spend time along with people you care for.

Hmm...interesting. There are a lot of groups, however, that do tend a corrupt household. Alcoholics, drugies, damaged parents, unethical parents..ect.

But what interests me the most is that my statement can be just as irrelevant as it is correct.-

If you grow up in a household with flaming alcoholics, you can grow up to be just like them, or be satisfied with a different life style and graduate a prestigious school, all on your own.

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Originally posted by SuspicionVandit Hmmm, would you lot consider someone on TA (exclusively) a friend? I don't know whether any of you exist, but emotionally, I do feel attached. paperbag831

nope unless i meet you in real life i have no ties to any of you people. I have seen too many people come and go from this place to feel attached. The ones I have had a face to face with I am more attached too then the ones that I havent.

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Originally posted by DjWhooCares e-bully

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Originally posted by ivofivo Hmm...interesting. There are a lot of groups, however, that do tend a corrupt household. Alcoholics, drugies, damaged parents, unethical parents..ect.

Sure, that's true. However, even these individuals bond in a way or another: criminals, for all their bad deeds, still join mobs and gather around gangs; alcoholics may display a sign or other of affection; and so on.

quote:

Originally posted by ivofivo If you grow up in a household with flaming alcoholics, you can grow up to be just like them, or be satisfied with a different life style and graduate a prestigious school, all on your own.

Once again, that's true. However, would you really be prepared to say alcoholics don't know the meaning of friendship?

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quote:

Originally posted by EricB. nope unless i meet you in real life i have no ties to any of you people.

That's it, I'm breaking up with you Eric! Don't ever - ever - call me again. There's a box on my doormat with all your belongings. Feel free to come and pick it up, but do not ring my bell! Ever!

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Once again, that's true. However, would you really be prepared to say alcoholics don't know the meaning of friendship?

It depends on the alcoholic.

What I've noticed is that the ego of the alcoholic tends to become somewhat ossified. It's almost as if so much of their consciousness is obliterated a lot of the time that old ideas take root and they're unable to adapt their thinking. Hence when they come into conflict with something which contradicts their own rules, be it by others or even their own hand, they drink.

This predilection is part of a tendency towards nostalgia and sentimentality. The alcoholic will hold onto people through thick or thin - and sometimes whether that other person wants them to, or not; and whether that other person is actually good for the alcoholic or not. The alcoholic, when they're drinking, is a whirl-wind of destruction and even the nicest one has a gift for ruination of both themselves and the people around them.

It therefor stands to reason that the alcoholic both knows and doesn't know the 'meaning' of friendship. In as much as the alcoholic actually knows who he or she is, they understand the transcendental meanings of things like love, friendship, honor, et al. The problem arises when, under the duress of drinking and the conflicts it creates, these meanings become warped.

Ideals are tortured, beyond recognition. The ego weaves an elaborate web to maintain cohesion through the senseless storm of obliteration. It is a cobweb of illusion. The drinker becomes deluded having to keep track of so many lies about himself that the only sensible thing to do is impose them onto the world around him or her.

In this sense they suffer from a form of pathological narcissism. They become monsters, in their own right. They are Jack Torrance, befuddled by their myriad fears and the delusions they conjure to counter them.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira That's it, I'm breaking up with you Eric! Don't ever - ever - call me again. There's a box on my doormat with all your belongings. Feel free to come and pick it up, but do not ring my bell! Ever!

*jerks off on your door mat*
Welcum

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Originally posted by DjWhooCares e-bully

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It's a Miles Davis reference, Lira. I really don't see the point in this question. It's impossibly broad and vague. There are many relationships you have with others that are called "friendship".

So, according to you philosophers and great thinkers like Epicurus, Aristotle, Cicero, and St. Augustine were wasting their time?

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Originally posted by Lira Still, it doesn't prevent us from looking for universals and simplifying these different relationships in order to define what it is that they have in common. It needn't be an exhaustive list, as you can always split hairs indefinitely until you define each and every friendly relationship on the planet. . . .

Posts like these are why I fucking love you man.

To add a bit of that, I think every discussion on friendship should dwell a little into Epicurus. His view was that friendship, besides acting as the glue that holds society together, was the main contributor to living a happy, pleasant life. I partly disagree with this since I think that while it certainly an important part of the pursue of happiness, it certainly isn't the main path towards it.

He maintained that friendship probably arose from a hope or expectation of mutual benefit between people but that with time and continued contact it grows into a genuine affection, devoid of any expectation other than the pleasure of having another person as your friend.

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Last edited by woscar on Jul-28-2010 at 22:14

quote:

Originally posted by Maige Are you a former alcoholic or have you been addicted to any drugs? I've never seen such a deep insight into addiction. I'm saving this, it means a lot to me. Escapism also plays a major role in addiction. Getting high (on certain drugs) helps you completely forget about everything and go somewhere else for a while.

I'd say that a lot of first-hand experience coupled with a lot of book research went into informing that. I'm not much into the whole recovery community angle and, apart from booze and cocaine (coke being relatively easier than booze to kick), still dabble with other mind altering chemicals.

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quote:

Originally posted by woscar So, according to you philosophers and great thinkers like Epicurus, Aristotle, Cicero, and St. Augustine were wasting their time?

If any of them asked the question: "What is the meaning of friendship?" with no other information, then yes. What are we supposed to be talking about here? What defines a friendship? The social point of friendship? The evolutionary point of friendship? The emotions of friendship? The practical application of friendship? The intangible essence of "true" friendship?

There is just a subject, and a question. There's no point of entry, no anecdote, no framework.

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