quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Bottom line is that, like the blogger, I prefer tracks that have strong melodic and harmonic components and think that those characteristics are far more important aspects of a quality song than the technical side is, but I feel like I'm very much in the minority. Oh well.

your not alone brah,

blah blah bla.. sound is FIRST. always.

Who will buy all my great melodies and innovative rythms if the sound is crap and the mixdown doesn't work in a club ?

..but once you learn how to create pro sounding music than of course you dont need to spend that much time on the mixdown. And as far as i know most of producers don't. They make mix in like 2 hours or even less and than they send it to mastering.

So the problem is not in the mixdown at all because only newbies are obsessed with it (and they SHOULD be if they ever want to release anything)

The real problem is that everyone is overproducing. They don't take a time for a track, they make it in few hours than change some things and make another track ... They are all fuckin lazy and don't make effort at all -> that's why music is crap nowadays.

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con I think you've missed the point of his blog. You say you spend hours trawling through the internet looking for tutorials, how you found one on bass which was really good, how you'd love to see how a pro makes a track etc etc. He is suggesting that you stop with all that shit and focus on composition/song-writing. Spending hours upon hours trying to get that bass line to be "just right" (after having already spent hours looking at bass tutorials) is time that you should be spending being creative and composing songs. You might not agree with that sentiment but this is the point he is trying to make.

No I couldn't agree more you are right on all accounts.

What his post really comes down to his balancing habits imo. If you focus too much on the musical side you will neglect the technological side, and vice versa.

I'm sure I tend to be heavy on the technological side but it seems congruent to my current level of skills. So I do understand the sentiment completely.

But I STILL feel a large majority of his post was him just saying "the sky is blue" or stating the most obvious thing that any producer on this forum could have stated. It seems like most producers know where they lack balance, and like thats NOT the real issue.
I think the real issue is making new habits solidify over time, and thats most likely what people fail at. So my honest assessment is a blog based on the formation of habits would have been more useful than the overwhelming message of just "be creative".

quote:

Originally posted by chick ..but once you learn how to create pro sounding music than of course you dont need to spend that much time on the mixdown. And as far as i know most of producers don't. They make mix in like 2 hours or even less and than they send it to mastering.

lol you sure about that?

just saying, a shitty mix won't be saved by mastering...especially the mastering engineers a lot of independent artists send their stuff out to. a shitty mix, mastered by even one of the best mastering engineers won't make it magically translate into a beautiful piece of production. i'd say 70% of a great song comes from the recording itself, 30% comes from a good mix. the mastering is just icing on the cake

creating pro sounding music is essentially mixing. creating music and expressing the beauty of it is recording. great ideas and having an open mind are what defines sound as music. that's why i said, why not make both? in my opinion, everyone who makes big bucks off of music should have some engineering knowledge and not just cop out by having someone else engineer it for you

Most of us here produce music that has perhaps a one in ten thousand chance of making us any big bucks. And that's being optimistic.

quote:

Originally posted by jupiterone in my opinion, everyone who makes big bucks off of music should have some engineering knowledge and not just cop out by having someone else engineer it for you

Is this just for trance, or all styles of music? Should all the top rock bands know how to engineer their albums, rather than take it to one of the top producers/ engineers?

If you're okay with rock artists not knowing the ins and outs of mixing, why are you not okay with trance artists who can write a good tune not knowing the ins and outs of mixing? As far as I'm concerned, if a great sounding song is the end result, I'm not fussed how it came to be. I'm just happy to be listening to it.

quote:

Originally posted by chick blah blah bla.. sound is FIRST. always. Who will buy all my great melodies and innovative rythms if the sound is crap and the mixdown doesn't work in a club ? ..but once you learn how to create pro sounding music than of course you dont need to spend that much time on the mixdown. And as far as i know most of producers don't. They make mix in like 2 hours or even less and than they send it to mastering. So the problem is not in the mixdown at all because only newbies are obsessed with it (and they SHOULD be if they ever want to release anything) The real problem is that everyone is overproducing. They don't take a time for a track, they make it in few hours than change some things and make another track ... They are all fuckin lazy and don't make effort at all -> that's why music is crap nowadays.

Writing a track is doing a lot of the hard work before the mixing comes. Writing music is mixing. You are technically mixing different sounds to make a track, so how are you not mixing? Using mixing tools like EQ and Compression is just the band aid and using them to mix takes a lot more fucking work. It's just easier to pick the right sounds and learn to work the filter to get a sound that fits.

I don't think working longer is necessarily better. Some people have success writing a track in a few hours while some take a much longer time. I suppose it's more important to be creative and have your ideas work cohesively, than to worry about the hardship put towards the final product. If the track is good, nobody is really going to give a fuck how long the track took to make. I am curious as a writer, but definately not as a consumer or listener. BT is really a prime example, because he's all about bragging about the technical craftsmanship of his tunes, but all of those glitch edits don't really mean the song is going to be more expressive. A record breaking amount of glitch edits that sit in the background of a pop tune don't really make it any better. I can't remember the song name.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

No, when you actually learn to mix, it's simple. I know producers who are releasing stuff that actually sells and they say mixdown doesn't take more than a few hours. And i read that in interviews too.

Also, many bigger DJs don't even do the mixdown themselves, maybe just basic stuff and than they send it to mixing engineer who corrects everything

quote:

Originally posted by chick No, when you actually learn to mix, it's simple. I know producers who are releasing stuff that actually sells and they say mixdown doesn't take more than a few hours. And i read that in interviews too. Also, many bigger DJs don't even do the mixdown themselves, maybe just basic stuff and than they send it to mixing engineer who corrects everything

While I would probably agree with you that for an experienced producer, the mixdown itself shouldn't take that long, there is more to making a track sound technically pro than just the mixdown.

A track made by an experienced producer will already sound pretty decent before the mixdown has even been started. In contrast, a noob's track will sound shit before the mixdown.

These has a lot to do with sound sources, sound selection and use of FX such as reverb and delay. Well chosen sounds that work well together, high quality drum samples and a competent use of FX will make for a good sounding track before any EQ's, compressors, panning etc etc have been applied.

Therefore, yes, for a pro, the mixdown itself won't take too long as there isn't THAT much to do to the track anyway. For a noob, they will spend ages on the mixdown, failing to get it to where they want it to be, usually because the sounds they have used are poor and/or don't work together and a mixdown will not correct this.

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con In contrast, a noob's track will sound shit before the mixdown.

...and after the mixdown

I totally agree with you, choosing quality sounds is much more important. If I would send my track to professional to mix it down, I'm pretty sure it would still suck because of poor samples and cheap synthesis. And I'm trying really hard but I still suck. I find so fuckin hard to synthesize quality sounds (maybe I just have to stop using Reason? )

quote:

Originally posted by Nightshift Music is an art before it is a science~

Right on - this is what the whole thing is about, emotions, feelings, natural flow and what is in your heart - nothing less nothing more just your ability (your music) to connect with listener.

Cheers

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I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

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