Something to note is that when people critic a track in the promotion section for example, they will often feel the need to offer some sort of critical insight on an area that needs improving, even if there are no standout issues. Percussion very often will be picked on in a trance track because of how simple and unimaginative percussion in trance is.

I know that in the past, I myself have been guilty of telling people their percussion needs work, even though if I played many of my favourite trance tunes, the percussion is no better. But when I'm listening for pleasure I'm not looking for faults or weaknesses.

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Listen to and download all my tracks at www.gregnicot.bandcamp.com

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Everyone has weaknesses in the way we approach music production.

Not Mad4Brad.

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BA-DUM-TSS

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ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

Why care so much about Genre classification?
Just do what feels right. Try breakbeats, try other stuff. Don't limit yourself unnecessarily.

I definitely feel that your melodic hooks are amongst if not the most accomplished pieces of work on this forum at this time, even if I wasn't a fan of your last offering it doesn't mean I don' appreciate and recognise that it is much better than what I can achieve.

However, I approach it from completely the opposite side, i.e. I can't write hooks for shit, but I can program drums and create half decent bass.

In my experience, tracks that work really well on the dance floor generally have more groove.

One thing I have noticed on the forum is that a number of people tend to give that statement when the bass is not high enough in the mix and they mistake it for bad programming when in actual fact it is there but not loud enough for it to have any real effect.

I on the other hand have to listen to people telling my that my music has Psy influences, which is a big mystery to me as I have never been to a Psy Trance night and what I have heard on the net and on mix compilations doesn't speak to me at all. I know we all like different things in this world, Psy just happens to be something I don't like. But you always have to acknowledge that people perceive your music differently to how you do.

In my opinion, the fact that you can write a good melodic hook puts you in a much stronger position than most in this industry at this time as most people these days focus too much on production techniques and not enough on developing quality ideas if you ask me.

When I approach percussion I try to perceive it as a conversation between each element in the groove and often will have things slightly out of time rather than strictly quantised. The secret behind good bass and percussion is simplicity (Something I learned as a bassist and a drummer), allowing each element room to breathe and have a logical place and don't be afraid of adding unorthodox sounds to your percussive arrangement. This is often trial and error but just have an open mind to what percussion is as its ultimately rythmical elements in sequence.

Take this as an example, on the album James Brown's Funky People there is a famous track called thing featuring Lynn Collins the Female preacher, even if you don't know the track I am talking about I will guarantee you that you have heard it a million times over. There is a break in the middle which has a build where one of the backing musicians sings 'Whooo, cut' which at the time probably wasn't intended as percussion per se. Then in the 80s Rob Base and EZ Rock come along and sample just that section and it then becomes the main percussive feature of the whole track and indeed probably the stand out feature. The track I refer to is 'It Takes Two'.

Check out the track around 1:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHn48b7iWF0

This is the sampled version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsxsyZqmmlQ

What I am trying to say in a long winded way is don't be afraid to defy convention, but also have a clear idea in your mind that you are creating your track and it is for you and not someone else, although we all accept that peer approval is nice it shouldn't be the end that justifies our means because that is when you become a clone of the industry. It took me a long time to realise that, but once I did my frustration subsided and I was able to get on with creating music that I like.

Another thing that people confuse as groove is complexity and they are so not the same thing.

Take Rihanna's new track 'Only Girl', cheesy pop crap or whatever, but the truth is it's quick catchy and it will work on the commercial dance floors, but my point is, if you listen to the percussion on that it's just Thud Clap Thud Clap Thud etc. with a ducked bassline. But it ties in with the other elements in that track, it does what it needs to do without becoming self indulgent.

Pan your hi hats, have question and answer scenarios going on between Left and Right but don't over cook it.

You might want to like at some vids of reggae drummers to get a grip on the off beat stuff. You don't have to master it, just get some ideas.

You obviously like making trance and you are very good at it and you do have labels that are after your tracks so that must tell you something. Don't forget, although the home producing community has boomed in recent years, the actual amount of people who can produce the type of work that you do are a rare breed.

As for sound design, fucking hell, if there ever was a breeding ground for industry snobs then this is it. I see people writing about it all the time, but I can't recall a track that I heard on the Production Forum that made me think, wow! this sounds so unique this guy must have made all of his own sounds. In the vast majority of cases they are still confirming to the confines of the producers respective genre with perhaps only subtle variations. That doesn't mean I don't respect the skills of someone who can do this, on the contrary, it's an art form of the highest order, but do I deem it necessary, no I don't. There are a million and one ways that you can use what is there already in creative ways and you can make it sound good and unique. Don't loose sleep over that one. In this instance the ends definitely justify the means and the route you take to meet those ends is up to you.

As you can tell, I have been on the beers tonight and will probably regret producing a thesis on rantism but that's just my £27.92 worth.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

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Originally posted by Morvan Why care so much about Genre classification?

I don't. Actually I have nothing to worry about there, I produce nothing but uplifting trance and I know it. What genre my music fits in has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said at all in this thread.


I've had time to think about it and this whole idea was more or less not thought through. Fuck people who hate my music, making it is one of the most fun things I can do and there are clearly people who enjoy the end result of that. I'm still relatively new to this and still make mistakes in every one of my tracks but I could be doing a LOT worse. Instead of looking for some other genre full of plenty of other areas to screw up in I'm just going to keep producing and see what comes of it.

And thanks, Nemesis, I appreciate the kind words and advice as always

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Originally posted by Kysora Fuck people who hate my music, making it is one of the most fun things I can do and there are clearly people who enjoy the end result of that.

Thats the spirit

I think this has already been said to some extent, but for a lot of other people to want to listen to a track, every element of it should be as good as possible and that's something I'd recommend striving for.

But that doesn't mean you have to be good at everything. Focus on what you're good at and what you enjoy, either by removing the other elements from your music, or by getting some help with those parts.

The same goes for any kind of music: good pianists know as much about how to get good sounds out of the piano as they do about the chords and melodies they play. They lean on other people for support - a good piano maker to build a high quality piano, good recording engineers to make sure it sounds as good as possible on tape, etc. That pianist might not be amazing at playing the drums. So he or she won't. If they want percussion, they'll find a good percussionist.

So I guess you could put your options into 3 categories: get better at sound design and percussion, leave out the sound design and percussion (although you'll probably want to find some good sounds you can reuse, even if you then just stick with those), or get someone to help you with creating sounds and putting together percussion for your tracks.


And don't worry about what genre you fit into. If you're writing good music, there will be people who will appreciate it and if it's really good then there will always be record labels who will release it.

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Stu Cox |

I recognize a lot of producers that don't really care for their percussion. If you are just lazy about it, throw in some loops and call it a day. When I start with an idea, I usually have a simple main groove going in 5 minutes. It ain't that much of work. Creating your own percussion is fun as every aspect for me in producing, beside mixing. Mixing is the most annoying part for me, because I can go on forever tweaking EQs, comps and adjusting levels. But for drums, and all those easy to use samples, FSU plug-ins, slicers and what not, working on drums is getting pretty easy.

Cutting loops and abusing effects on drums is just the same as creating your own sounds for synthesizers. Usually I have problems to find a theme that doesn't bore me after 10 minutes, rather than having issues with designing and creating sounds and drums.

If you enjoy what you do, keep on doing this. No need to fit an image of what people think a genre should sound like. We got too many producers already, that just want to sound like X or deliver a certain sound. You might want to start to see this as part of the process you are in as an artist.

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Originally posted by Kysora I don't. Actually I have nothing to worry about there, I produce nothing but uplifting trance and I know it. What genre my music fits in has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said at all in this thread.

It does. Look at what you wrote:

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Originally posted by Kysora Percussion bores me completely, I use it because it's more or less required in trance and it fills upper frequencies nicely. I do try to add variety to it but I virtually never draw attention to my percussion. It's not a strong area for me and I don't care to make it one. Yet I'm told my music's percussion is lacking, or that it doesn't have enough groove.

Of course you get bored, if you do nothing but same four-to-the-floor uplifting trance percussion, everybody gets bored especially in that type of genre. Try out different stuff (e.g. a track focused around a breakbeat, with uplifting trance elements). Get out of your comfort zone and you will start learning new stuff way faster.

Rhythm is more fundamental to music than melody or harmony. Improving your rhythm composition will naturally improve your melodies.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi Not Mad4Brad.

I have tons. My bigband arranging is rather weak. In fact my whole jazz vocabulary is much weaker than classical. My conducting is very elementary. Lets see what else, it is hard for me to write cliche hollywood music even when it is called for as I do have somewhat of an ego or a sense of pride. I also have difficulty writing atonal music.

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"This is why Superman works alone." GC
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