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Originally posted by UNFAZD I'd say you are misrepresenting my position yourself, or rather you are making an improper inference about my position since I have hardly stated anything of what I believe.

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Originally posted by UNFAZD If someone could explain to me how vision, immune responses, and tissue repair were not irreducibly complex, I'd be quite impressed. Otherwise, the "SCIENCE!" argument doesn't really cut it for me.

More precisely, you've stated what you don't believe which implies that you do believe in a theoretical concept other than a scientific explanation for complex biological functions.






Medichlorians, perhaps?

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Originally posted by UNFAZD If someone could explain to me how vision, immune responses, and tissue repair were not irreducibly complex, I'd be quite impressed. Otherwise, the "SCIENCE!" argument doesn't really cut it for me.

The devil has many temptations, science is but one of them. Unlike other vices it is subtle, for it appeals to man's hubris in thinking his learning can replace god. It really is a form of false idolatry. One can only shake your head at their foolishness and pray for God's mercy on their souls when judgement time approaches. Let see how their lofty scientific theories help them when they are at St Peter's gate.

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The First Experiment The historical account in Genesis 3 is a graphic illustration of the sinful error of empiricism: Adam and Eve, who had received God’s propositional revelation about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, decided to perform the world’s first scientific experiment. They were faced with conflicting hypotheses and predictions about the consequences of a certain course of action. God had told Adam, who then told Eve, that if he ate of the tree, he would surely die. The serpent told Eve, while Adam watched, that they would not certainly die, but would be transformed from mere men into gods (rather like the wood of Isaiah’s craftsman). Rather than accepting God’s Word on its own authority (as they and we should, for it is the only authority, and it is irrational to accept anything else in its place), Eve the empiricist observed the fruit, noting that it was good for food, pleasant to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise. (Here we seem to have the first appearance of the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.) Trusting her senses rather than God, Eve ate the fruit. Adam, it seems, watched her eat, for she gave the fruit, we are told, to her husband who was with her. Since Eve did not die as God had predicted, God’s hypothesis was wrong, and the Devil’s hypothesis was right. Adam also ate the fruit. The entire misery of the human race began with Adam and Eve not believing God’s revealed Word, with Adam and Eve relying on their own observations, and with Adam and Eve subjecting God’s revelation to an empirical test, a scientific experiment. Our empirical theologians and apologists are doing the same still today. Their efforts to prove or render probable the existence of God or the reliability of the Bible on the basis of experience have no other foundation. They simply do not understand that proving God or his Word is foolishness. God and his Word are the highest authority; they are the basis of all proof. There can be no greater authority, no more fundamental axiom. It is impious to suppose that the evidence of one’s senses is in any way superior to the propositional revelation of God.

http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=170

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Still less does Dr. Sagan seem to realize that science is a self-correcting and ever-changing discipline precisely because it is never correct. If a scientist ever discovered a truth, it would not and could not change. Two plus two is four is now, has always been, and always will be true be cause it was not discovered by the scientific method. Christian theology has always taught and will always teach the doctrine of the Trinity because the Trinity was not discovered by the scientific method, but revealed by God, who is truth himself. All scientific laws are false. All the laws of physics and astronomy are false. Why just a month ago the astronomers admitted that-oops!-they had made a mistake in calculating the distances between stars, a mistake of only 25 percent. Who knows, perhaps next month they will acknowledge another mistake. Or perhaps it will be the chemists, or the physicists, or the biologists who make the announcement next month. All the physics and biology textbooks written in 1910 are now regarded as completely wrong. Fifty years from now scientists will consider our present texts completely wrong. Scientists never discover the truth because the scientific method, which Dr. Sagan esteems so highly, is a tissue of logical fallacies. Science does not and cannot give us truth. Scientists, to use the phraseology of the King James Bible, are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Science is a tentative technological enterprise. It is incompetent as a source of knowledge.

http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=90

What the hell!? All right, I'm usually drawing attention to the limitations of science, but that's unbelievable JBJ

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Originally posted by stren yeah he was pretty preachy, but not forceful ant anti religious like Richard Dawkins

Yeah. I liked this video more than the other one about "science saving [his] soul".

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Originally posted by Lira What the hell!? All right, I'm usually drawing attention to the limitations of science, but that's unbelievable JBJ

I know, right?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=170 http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=90

Someone should point out the hypocrisy of maintaining a website then, which was made possible by science. Actually, I might just send them a kind e-mail and see what they respond.

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Well, they acknowledge science is useful for making technology. But it can never give us THE TRUTH.

Neither can just making shit up


Also im temporarily hijacking this thread for a bit of awesome science and photography. Yesterdays solar eclipse.

http://legault.perso.sfr.fr/eclipse...ar_transit.html

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Are you guys talking religion again?

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Who cares about the sound, pretty cool visuals.
I'm tempted to download the video and replace the audio with some wikked psytrance.

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Originally posted by Lira What the hell!? All right, I'm usually drawing attention to the limitations of science, but that's unbelievable JBJ Yeah. I liked this video more than the other one about "science saving [his] soul".

This one was cool, but imo the "science saved my soul" vid was much better. It's too bad that that one isn't available in HD like this one is.

And wtf is with this religious nonsense? FFS...just do everyone else a favour and drink the punch already

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Jan-07-2011 at 01:47