I want to hear him talk forever.

My 2cts,

look at the following:
- what defines a succesful artist?
- what are their primary sources of income?

- gigs
- sales
- endorsements

In general there is an overload of content available on the web and people don't have to pay for music anymore. There are more (internet) radio stations than one can listen to in a lifetime, there is a lifetime wordth of audio posted on Soundcloud every day
the amount of viral videos on YouTube is immense.

It will be very hard to claim your space in this spotlight, without the networking power and marketing budgets of major labels.

So what does that mean for us? either get signed by a major, or become a very succesful DJ.

If you want to earn money now? have people pay you for your skills and do pay as you go production jobs (music for corporate videos / commercials / stockmusic) DJ on weddings / parties etc.

Even if everybody knows your name on the internet in social media, Unless your able to capitalize on that reputation, you will probably still not be able to pay your rent, let alone splash out on your online stardom income.

___________________
Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

a little bit of seething wordage, some sarcasm here.

who realistically chooses to make music for an income? why would you do that? before armin made it big, he finished law school. everyone should have a backup. the ones who are making the most money had a backup, and probably would have never had a chance to belt out any tunes without that real life support. musicians should be compensated for sure. but the dj/producer/label gimmick is profoundly lucrative, a confusing and often stressful and frustrating amalgamation of lucrative enterprises. like the guy says, these people (DJs) are just entertainers, they aren't musicians. you can easily hire someone to come in and produce things for you, but the system is set up that once you have your huge "in", why capitulate your desire for material success? when you have throngs of promoters and party goers already subscribed to the marketing and scene, innovation is an unknown, and that's what these pieces of shit are. a bunch of mundane, sedentary risk avoiding capitalists. i guess the message is, only DJ or produce to get famous, because that's the only way you'll make any real money. over celebrated demi-gods, and the underground DIY party DJ/producer. see the disparity. taste it. feel it.

Very true words Evolve140

___________________
Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 before armin made it big, he finished law school.

It was actually the other way around, Armin made it big while still being in law school. He graduated on copyright if I recall correctly .

I'm not going to spill all my beans but I think labels actually do not really benefit from the online social media at all. There are plenty oppurtunities out there especially in this regard.

Armada is one of the few making use of social media. But with over 350.000 followers on Facebook I'm surprised they do not blast all EDM shops/charts away with their sales each and every time. So apart from what they're doing right they're not doing very well either. I wonder if 1% of that 350k followers even buys their music regularly. Would be very valuable and interesting information. Don't try and be this huge/professional company, personalize your brand, engage your audience on social media and respond to their questions and input regualarly and you've got hundreds of followers in no-time. Think about what stimulates and motivates your audience to keep track of your activity (quality music, decent pricing, good website, engaging/personal approach towards fans), think about how you can reach your audience without annoying them. Don't hide behind the corporate face that is your website/twitter/facebook. Engaging your audience in an interactive way would probably be 80% of creating reaching a new audience and creating a lift in sales. A less personal approach in a lot of cases pulls you away from your audience (i.e. statically posting your news on twitter but never responding to any questions) while you want to reel them in closer.

I think labels and possibly artists should think of ways to stimulate the interest of their audience in other ways. Alternative ways of putting yourself out there. If you do things in a smart marketable way I think it isn't that hard to even reach over a 1000 downloads on your first ever release within a month.

Think about handing out branded USB sticks (or other freebies) with promotional audio (mp3 or seomthing) on there to hand out to your audience (order them for free via the website, or hand them out at gigs), give the social media followers more 'inside scoops'. Put that facebook like button on every page of your website so all of the visitors friends get notified the visitor likes that page once clicked. Collect the data Facebook is able to feed you. Locate your ideal target audience and aim to expand from there.

A lot of these things are really simple when put to use and I'm amazed how very few actually do so.

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Apr-29-2011 at 07:21

thanks for the correction. i hope my point sort of was clear though, that a pragmatic, career oriented person has a lot better chances of success than someone who was merely trying to make a living from music. however, i interjected that on my own, it not being the first relevant thing pertaining to this discussion. thanks for sharing what you have, and it's respectable that you don't spill the beans. having said that while trying to practice the same discretion, i think one of the major misconceptions worth mentioning is that armin, tiesto, and wonderboys like that were "prodigies" in some sense -- when in actuality they got a lot of help. it is perhaps sheer cunning that made them successful. will we even know?

edit: after reading the initial post, it seems the premise i spoke of and divulged upon was indeed the correct one. (music as sole income/revenue)

Last edited by Evolve140 on Apr-29-2011 at 07:28

quote:

Originally posted by Evolve140 thanks for the correction. i hope my point sort of was clear though, that a pragmatic, career oriented person has a lot better chances of success than someone who was merely trying to make a living from music. however, i interjected that on my own, it not being the first relevant thing pertaining to this discussion. thanks for sharing what you have, and it's respectable that you don't spill the beans. having said that while trying to practice the same discretion, i think one of the major misconceptions worth mentioning is that armin, tiesto, and wonderboys like that were "prodigies" in some sense -- when in actuality they got a lot of help.

Armin is by far the most interesting example of how things should be done businesswise. I'm not a fan of the label and the way they work now but they seem to be a very effective and efficient company. Unfortunately they're also a humongous corporate entity that is hard to talk to (not really engaging their audience on a personal level).

If you want to succeed in music I think it is important that you engage your audience in an interactive way. One way (artist to audience) communication is a no-no. You have the have pre-defined goals, a set scope you will be working in. The goal living from music is too broad in a sense that it leaves too much open. You will need a plan of action and make it happen.

Chris Reece is the prime example for me right now, musically and businesswise. He's making a living out of his music now but from what I've read he produces like 80 or so hrs a week in order to sustain his income. However he keeps things personal by talking with fans on all levels and keeps the group of people he works with relatively small making him incredibly efficient overall. He has worked his way up in the past 3 years more than most people would think was possible in this climate.

___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Okay nice. Way to re-align the discussion, but I fear I could derail it slightly once more. I think capitalism is such an interesting construct to be pervading the idea of music. Imagine that it had failed as a system, some other economic and idealogical system would have emerged. It works for those who it works for, a paradigm, but I won't elaborate on that statement from fear of politicizing this thread, and because I think it should be resonant enough for everyone to understand.

What if money didn't exist? Just hypothetically. If you are smart enough, you can think about anything abstractly and maybe even a little disassociated. I believe that people are paying for superficial notions of being satisfied or entertained, and that others are seemingly paying for musical gratification. Which people want to be entertained, and which people want to be musically gratified? Who are we actually making music for?

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker I think there has to be a market for it but audio quality is the way I'd like to go.

The most impressive thing about Funktion One is how well-known the brand is around the world. Not in any kind of detail, but a vast number of clubbers will be able to tell you that a Funktion One sound system is a good thing, even if they're just quoting what others have said. In fact most clubbers wouldn't be able to name any other club speaker brands.

But yes, high quality IS a bit of a niche. Everyone wants to hear good quality sound when they're out, but a lot of people wouldn't choose one night over the other because the sound is A+ standard rather than A.

The number of people who will happily listen to 128kbps and lower quality MP3s at home and on their iPods shows that most people aren't that fussed.

So I think you'd have a hard time making a living by using high sound quality as a unique selling point.

___________________
Stu Cox |

Home listening has nothing to do with club experience. I know you weren't directly comparing them though. I have been to huge events where I thought the sound could be better. Maybe we don't know what the best could be, since everything is so superficial in club land (shit land) now? Maybe trying to attain such a pristine sound is elitist, but shit, considering how poorly and mismanaged the scene is operating, and how sophomoric listening practices can be, how do you know ALL of us wouldn't truly benefit from a pristine listening environment? I'm all for it, sign me up. Imagine, loud enough you don't need ear plugs, clear enough you don't need to turn it up. Let's not sell ourselves short, after all, this is our fucking scene now.

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox The most impressive thing about Funktion One is how well-known the brand is around the world. Not in any kind of detail, but a vast number of clubbers will be able to tell you that a Funktion One sound system is a good thing, even if they're just quoting what others have said. In fact most clubbers wouldn't be able to name any other club speaker brands. But yes, high quality IS a bit of a niche. Everyone wants to hear good quality sound when they're out, but a lot of people wouldn't choose one night over the other because the sound is A+ standard rather than A. The number of people who will happily listen to 128kbps and lower quality MP3s at home and on their iPods shows that most people aren't that fussed. So I think you'd have a hard time making a living by using high sound quality as a unique selling point.

You are completely right and on point with the thread. We need to start a thread about Audiophile vs. Club Slut