Do illegal downloads mean lower revenue/royalties for the artists?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN As for artists like andy blueman - give me a fucking break. So he was a big name but he produced instantly displosable trance that connects with a particular demographic inclined to be illegal downloaders (kids in to epic schranz). Burial does not gig, but yet seems to get on OK. Honestly, you just have to be smart about music. I know producers that make way better money off selling ringtones of their tracks than they do off the tracks themselves. Combine that with the odd TV or film work (see Andy Blueman) and you're going to make money off music, let alone if you gig live or DJ.

No, you give me a break.
All Blueman has released is 13 tracks. 5 of them were rated "track of the week", 2 were voted #1 from TATW's weekly web vote, Florescence made the top 25 best trance choons of 2010. And are you ready for this... >>>> 11 <<<< of his 13 tracks were voted into the top 1000 trance tunes in HISTORY. That was out of *10,000* nominees. Thats pretty damn impressive no matter who you are or whether you like his music or not.
84% of his tracks made it in. Show me another artist who had that many tracks voted for. I doubt there is even 1.

Blueman was not around a long time but in the short time he was releasing tracks he was more consistent than a lot of artists I can think of. Look at Kandi, Nickey, Tyas, Nitrous Oxide, Static Blue, Tayle, Nickson... FUCK, there are so many artists where most of their tracks might be mixed decent or ok, but half of all their tracks in general just suck. Blueman sometimes had issues with sound quality because he was always pushing the envelope but I can only name 1 or 2 of his tracks that I consider total flukes. Other artists tend to produce one decent track, then a handful of shit ones. Artists like Airbase are very far and few between. I consider Blueman even as a "rookie" to have been more consistent than most.

Now take what I've said, and apply that to the industry. We have people like Storyteller and Cryo who want you to believe in concepts like mind over matter, but what matters most in this industry is politics, not how optimistic a person you be. I'm sorry but that is a crock of shit. "Think in opportunities instead of problems". That sounds like hippy talk to me.. let me hit this joint first. Only way to solve a problem is to first look at it logically, not ignore it. And the whole point here is EVEN IF Blueman was up to the standards of you and clay, and the very small minority of people that hate him (if you go read any other forum than TA you'll see around 90+% of people posting love his music) he STILL wouldn't have made shit.
What are all the other succesful artists doing? DJn, look at Tyas and Ali and Fila, only way to "think in opportunity" in this industry is to sell out and become a DJ or figure out a way to monopolize the industry to its core.. orrr to just be really good at politics and kissing the right asses. Blueman busted his ass, had no social skills but made really good music, maybe not according to you but ABSOLUTELY according to the vast majority of people, and he still didn't make shit. He had no ability to talk coherent English but he sure was one talented mfkr when it came to mass appeal. Cheese or not I definitely don't consider his tracks "diposable"... unless you consider the other 1000 best tracks ever made to be disposable too.
THAT is the point. Positivity will get you nowhere in this business. Hardwork is always rewarded with a parasitic level of selectivity. Its all about what you can do for the ones above you, and how they can rape you in the process.

And on top of all of that the world is going to end in 2012.
Now tell Robby he doesn't know shit and is just some dumb clueless newbie. Thats where most these debates end up anyway.

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pop(ular) music is generally disposable. The largest part of the world likes pop music. So yes Blueman is likely to be disposable even though you mention some great achievements.

I think a bunch of rebels with plans to rule the world would do the edm industry a lot of good. Think different, be different and communicate differently.

I'd love to file a class action against several labels together with other neglected artists and force some edm labels to go bankrupt. As soon as you can prove the abuse of artists is structural and intended you have a strong case. It should be fairly easy as they never deliver statements on time if at all and they seem to delay things at all cost. They don't live up to their contracts either way. So voiding the contract with a damage claim for everyone shouldn't be hard. That would shake up things. I'm actually getting excited haha.

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If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on May-20-2011 at 05:28

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Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Now take what I've said, and apply that to the industry. We have people like Storyteller and Cryo who want you to believe in concepts like mind over matter, but what matters most in this industry is politics, not how optimistic a person you be. I'm sorry but that is a crock of shit. "Think in opportunities instead of problems". That sounds like hippy talk to me.. let me hit this joint first. Only way to solve a problem is to first look at it logically, not ignore it.

This is an interesting point because I think it's the other way around. Matter over mind.

Matter is labels are not cost-effective, they earn their money by holding back on paying out artists or paying out stupidly low percentages, because:

1. They're inefficient. Digital distribution has an overhead cost that is near to 0 if done correctly and automated. EDM Labels that actually create hardcopy products hardly exist anymore so the investment is near 0. The only thing they have to pay for is employees and their office (if they have any of either).

2. (Especially the bigger) labels want to uphold the old ways. They wan't their old gross revenue back, don't want to fire employees, they're in denial, fail to recognise business oppurtunities out there which are blatantly obvious (to me) for a few years now. Guess what, this is 2011. Adapt and automate.

3. (Big) labels don't scale properly. Small labels (ran by one or 2 guys) often pay out 40-50% on gross sales and on time more regularly than the big ones. While upscaling is about increasing revenue, efficiency and profit margin! Get a clue?! 50% is a lot of course, but 14% is plain stupid for a product that requires no investment (other than time) to distribute.

Don't come telling me those 2 guys running their small label have a day-job. Of course they do; They're efficient with their time! They publish music and yet still have time to do a full time job? Seems like those big labels could cut 50% on personnel if they only had the aforementioned two guys.

4. The majority of labels refuse to abide their own contracts (!), neglect artists and lack long term brand building for them and their artists.

Apart from number 2 all of these can be solved easily. Labels (the big ones mostly) just don't want to change and artists accept willingly. That needs to change.

Only 2 out of 10 labels I am supposed to get statements from have lived up to their own contracts. It's appalling. Labels are (imo) a bigger problem than illegal downloads.

I do think labels can be a good thing. The majority just isn't with the current business model and organization structures.

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Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on May-20-2011 at 07:30

I found one of my tracks in a monthly "beatport best of techno" pack on one of the major piracysites.
considering that I am still to see any statements, let alone payouts,I really don't mind it. free publicity and being associated with bigger names is aLways a good thing. fickle I haTe typing on this android lol

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ALFI - BOHICA - DJ MIX (Stream+Dropbox)

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Originally posted by dj_alfi I found one of my tracks in a monthly "beatport best of techno" pack on one of the major piracysites. considering that I am still to see any statements, let alone payouts,I really don't mind it. free publicity and being associated with bigger names is aLways a good thing. fickle I haTe typing on this android lol

Honestly, I don't think that is a bad thing necessarily. At first (years ago) I was pissed off. Now I consider it a compliment. Ironically illegal distribution of my music has probably brought me more than legal sales.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

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Originally posted by dj_alfi fickle I haTe typing on this android lol

Yeah, this site is fun on an android phone. A lot of the time I can't see what I'm typing, and have to hope that Android isn't guessing at/changing any words...

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller The majority of labels refuse to abide their own contracts (!), neglect artists and lack long term brand building for them and their artists. Only 2 out of 10 labels I am supposed to get statements from have lived up to their own contracts. It's appalling. Labels are (imo) a bigger problem than illegal downloads.

This is pretty much all that needs to be said really and I hear it time and time again.

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Can you make it on your own?

The thing that is always wondering me, are people that are wondering why newcomers already ask for too much. Saying that it's normal for labels to give them such deals that I came across.

My experience might be worst, but I was having a strange time dealing with labels. First of all, I got requested randomly over a social community for releasing an E.P. What kept me back was mostly the label having an attitude like "We don't really care which tunes. All stuff you do is great. Just finish it.". I felt a bit like *anybody* and I think this is true for a lot of labels. If you already feel like this from the very first step in communicating with people that are going to earn the major part from your creative work it's just a big show stopper.

Music means a lot for me and if someone is about to release it, I might just ask for a little more enthusiasm. There should be a certain connection. Truth might be also that I'm putting too many emotions in this thing and what could happen to my music. Maybe just be thankful for having it out there and people enjoying it for some time, no matter if they paid for it or not. But then again, you simply could put it out there and no one would care to leech it, simply because it's free.

I think soundcloud and the likes could help steer artists that are releasing on labels to instead release music from their website

Someone fairly big in dance music (cant remember who and cant find the track) put up a new track recently on soundcloud and instead of the "buy on beatport" button it had something like "buy from online shop" or something similar
makes perfect sense when you think about it

However you would think that part of their financial gain would come from hoping that soundcloud (or the artists own site) becomes bigger than beatport, id imagine there is quite a gap there yet...

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Originally posted by trancedanne Every tune he made got played on ASOT and as far as i know ASOT has millions of listeners every week. This just shows how few people who actually buy the music they listen to but its also because the scene is so ridiculously diluted. Make a track and you can find thousands of similar tracks released every week.

yes ASOT is the measurement of what tracks are good
people dont buy his music because it sucks.
not because it was on ASOT or not.


please not another blueman sucking dick thread.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi I found one of my tracks in a monthly "beatport best of techno" pack on one of the major piracysites. considering that I am still to see any statements, let alone payouts,I really don't mind it. free publicity and being associated with bigger names is aLways a good thing. fickle I haTe typing on this android lol

agreed on some levels. But, it´s not ideal that day after you´ve released a track, the 100 first hits on google are piracysites or shady russian forums...