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Originally posted by Zharen THIS Regular citizens are already paying an arm and a leg just to attend college here in this state. Why should they have to pay so much when illegals get a pass? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...e_n_899394.html This is ridiculous. If illegals can get free tuition and private scholarships, then legal citizens should too. This state gets stupider as each year passes. Maybe they oughta fix their own budget problems before attracting all the illegals over here.

Well, the scholarships are private. The people with the money can give it to whomever they want. What exactly makes you think that it's your business to tell them what to do with their own money?

Furthermore, it's not as if there aren't many, many more private scholarships available to U.S. citizens. How many of the students whining about an increase in their already tax-subsidized tuition even bothered to apply for any of them? Not many. Hell, how many of them have ever held down a real job in their entire lives?

This sense of entitlement makes me fucking sick, and I can assure you that I'm not the only one. Your citizenship comes with many perks--none of which, I'd point out, you did anything to actually earn. Unfortunately for you, an entitlement to have private individuals charitably fund your education is not one of those perks.

So if you want people to open up their wallets and give you a free education out of their own pockets, then maybe you should quit crying and whining and demonstrate some kind of work ethic, or maturity, or at least some appreciation of what is being done for you instead of behaving like a spoiled little brat who thinks that being asked to pay his own way makes him some kind of victim.

Education shouldn't involve having to struggle to pay for it. That is not the point of it.

Well, somebody has to pay for it. Running a university isn't free. Furthermore, working to pay for your education builds character and teaches you skills that you can't learn in a classroom. Not that you would know anything about that, Nou.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well, somebody has to pay for it. Running a university isn't free. Furthermore, working to pay for your education builds character and teaches you skills that you can't learn in a classroom. Not that you would know anything about that, Nou.

I wouldn't have known if I had gone, everything would have been paid for.


That being said, somebody should pay for it, and that is everybody. There is not enough public subsidy provided to education in this country. Our tax rates are stupid low.

Then again, I do not trust that this country could work together and do anything requiring an ounce cooperation unless our lives and our livelihood depended on it.

Look out, arbiter’s mainframe has been hacked with an emotion virus!

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby I wouldn't have known if I had gone, everything would have been paid for.

No doubt. I'm sure you've had many things paid for by others in your life. And I'm not saying this to be an asshole, but it shows. Personally, I think you would be better off today if you had less experience getting things for free and more experience earning them. I also think you have plenty of company in that regard.

However...

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That being said, somebody should pay for it, and that is everybody. There is not enough public subsidy provided to education in this country. Our tax rates are stupid low. Then again, I do not trust that this country could work together and do anything requiring an ounce cooperation unless our lives and our livelihood depended on it.

There are good arguments for increasing our public educational subsidies. I wouldn't be in favor of a system that sought to provide everyone with a free university education (that's parasitism, not cooperation), but I think you're absolutely correct that it would be a good idea for our country to invest more in providing educational opportunities for the population -- in particular, to those who are willing and able to do something to earn it. But that's a little aside from the point of this thread, which is about private funding, not public funding.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Well, the scholarships are private. The people with the money can give it to whomever they want. What exactly makes you think that it's your business to tell them what to do with their own money? Furthermore, it's not as if there aren't many, many more private scholarships available to U.S. citizens. How many of the students whining about an increase in their already tax-subsidized tuition even bothered to apply for any of them? Not many. Hell, how many of them have ever held down a real job in their entire lives? This sense of entitlement makes me fucking sick, and I can assure you that I'm not the only one. Your citizenship comes with many perks--none of which, I'd point out, you did anything to actually earn. Unfortunately for you, an entitlement to have private individuals charitably fund your education is not one of those perks. So if you want people to open up their wallets and give you a free education out of their own pockets, then maybe you should quit crying and whining and demonstrate some kind of work ethic, or maturity, or at least some appreciation of what is being done for you instead of behaving like a spoiled little brat who thinks that being asked to pay his own way makes him some kind of victim.

Oh go fuck off with your high and mighty rambles. I've done more than my share of paying taxes in this fucking country and spent 8 years of my life working. I also paid for all my post-secondary schooling back when I was going to community college and the only so called "entitlements" that I have ever received in my life are UI because the economy went to shit. So don't fucking tell me to go demonstrate some kind of work ethic when all I've done is put up with shit from corporate assholes and penny pinchers you fucking ****.

Law is the law. People like you fail to see that the law currently states that anyone who is here illegally is to be deported back to their country of origin. Should we make getting US citizenship easier for those who want to legally work here? Sure. But you don't just get phony birth certificates and DMV licenses. I believe they have another name for such a crime, forgery.

For what its worth from someone who's tried, its remarkably hard to get legitimate asylum in the US. Apparently you've got to present evidence your family home gets burned to the ground, land seized and shot at a couple of times by the local militia (which I didn't have a handful of ashes or any buckshot in my arse to look at) Not helped by the fact that it was a country that the clerk and her shift senior had ever heard of until finally some manager (or whatever passed for one in the public service) looked it up.

Literally by the time my (legally acquired) visa expired they'd more or less made a decision that it wasn't worth letting me stay on account that I was otherwise gainfully employed by the dirty French, did some things in ZW they didn't really like, not 'at risk' and can take my sorry self "back to the UK or try Australia" ...so, I did. Being "terrorised" at the airport for an overdue visa, which went overdue while waiting for the USCIS to stuff about.

Hindsight, its no great loss for me, though I'd imagine there are a fair few other people who are pretty much boned under worse circumstances. Dunno about educating illegals at university... over here they have education visa's and charge them a huge amount of cash to go to school.

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Originally posted by Zharen Oh go fuck off with your high and mighty rambles. I've done more than my share of paying taxes in this fucking country and spent 8 years of my life working. I also paid for all my post-secondary schooling back when I was going to community college and the only so called "entitlements" that I have ever received in my life are UI because the economy went to shit. So don't fucking tell me to go demonstrate some kind of work ethic when all I've done is put up with shit from corporate assholes and penny pinchers you fucking ****.

Good for you. Stick to it and maybe one day your balls will drop and you’ll no longer be overcome with the irresistible urge to whine and cry incoherently about things that you don’t know shit about. Do you know why everyone is such a "penny pincher" when it comes to you? It's not a coincidence; they're just showing good judgment. You're a bad investment.

Since I noticed that you conveniently ignored my question about what makes you think it’s your place to tell private individuals who to give their money to, I’ll ask again: what exactly is your problem with this law? In your original post, you wrote that: “If illegals can get free tuition and private scholarships, then legal citizens should too.” However, as I pointed out before, such opportunities already exist for citizens, and most of them don’t even bother to apply.

So, if private individuals or organizations want to use their own personal money to give opportunities to illegal immigrants that already exist for citizens, what exactly makes you think it’s your business to tell them they shouldn’t be permitted to do so?

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Law is the law. People like you fail to see that the law currently states that anyone who is here illegally is to be deported back to their country of origin. Should we make getting US citizenship easier for those who want to legally work here? Sure. But you don't just get phony birth certificates and DMV licenses. I believe they have another name for such a crime, forgery.

Well, well, well—if we don't have a little wannabe lawyer here. How cute. Too bad you're way out of your league.

What the law actually states is that "[a]ny alien who is present in the United States in violation of . . . any . . . law of the United States . . . is deportable." 8 U.S.C. 1227(a)(1)(B) (2006). There's a giant, gaping chasm between "is to be deported" and "is deportable." The biggest difference is that the actual statutory language recognizes the executive branch’s prosecutorial discretion. The statute gives the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement the enforcement authority to initiate removal proceedings against illegal aliens, but it doesn’t create any enforceable legal obligation to use that authority in any particular case. The decision whether or not to initiate removal proceedings is almost entirely a matter of the agency’s prosecutorial discretion (subject to certain limitations—e.g., the agency can't exercise its discretion in a way that violates the Equal Protection Clause or the Due Process Clause). See generally Shoba Sivaprasad Wadhia, The Role of Prosecutorial Discretion in Immigration Law, 9 Conn. Pub. Int. L.J. 243 (2010). If ICE so chose, they could exercise that discretion and choose to deport absolutely no one.

In fact, the power of administrative agencies, such as the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, to exercise prosecutorial discretion in using, or refraining from using, its law enforcement authority is a matter of constitutional law. If Congress attempted to enact a law which made the deportation of illegal aliens mandatory, it would be unconstitutional as a violation of the separation of powers. See, e.g., Heckler v. Chaney, 470 U.S. 821, 831–832 (1985) (“Finally, we recognize that an agency’s refusal to institute proceedings shares to some extent the characteristics of the decision of a prosecutor in the Executive Branch not to indict–a decision which has long been regarded as the special province of the Executive Branch, inasmuch as it is the Executive who is charged by the Constitution to ‘take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.’”) (quoting U.S. Const., Art. II § 3).

So if you want to talk about the law, well that’s the fuckin’ law. Illegal immigrants are “deportable.” Whether they are to be deported is a a case-by-case determination to be made at the discretion of the Executive. You know what else is “the law?”: the California Dream Act—i.e., what you’re whining about in this thread. That’s also “the law” now, and if you don’t like it that’s too bad. Personally, I suggest you emigrate. You won’t be missed.

I sure hope that you appreciate all the free education with which I’ve provided you. I realize that it’s probably wasted on you, but since this is a public forum I can at least harbor some small hope that someone else out there will benefit from it.

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Originally posted by Lilith For what its worth from someone who's tried, its remarkably hard to get legitimate asylum in the US. Apparently you've got to present evidence your family home gets burned to the ground, land seized and shot at a couple of times by the local militia (which I didn't have a handful of ashes or any buckshot in my arse to look at) Not helped by the fact that it was a country that the clerk and her shift senior had ever heard of until finally some manager (or whatever passed for one in the public service) looked it up. Literally by the time my (legally acquired) visa expired they'd more or less made a decision that it wasn't worth letting me stay on account that I was otherwise gainfully employed by the dirty French, did some things in ZW they didn't really like, not 'at risk' and can take my sorry self "back to the UK or try Australia" ...so, I did. Being "terrorised" at the airport for an overdue visa, which went overdue while waiting for the USCIS to stuff about. Hindsight, its no great loss for me, though I'd imagine there are a fair few other people who are pretty much boned under worse circumstances. Dunno about educating illegals at university... over here they have education visa's and charge them a huge amount of cash to go to school.

What the fuck country were you running from?

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Originally posted by Arbiter ...

What's the law say about slavery, 'cause Zharen just got owned?

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012