Okay so far I have ripped about 10 vinyl.

I am happy with the results but have one small discrepancy.

It has always been the case with my own mixer (and most other mixers I have used) that in stereo, there seems to be a slightly offset balance in favour of the right channel.
I recall having pondered this years ago but was advised that when the mixer is set to 'mono' the levels will always be equal.

I have never had anyone mention such a slight offset in channels before in respect of my mixes so I suspect it is barely noticeable (as a matter of fact, it isn't really)

That being said, I would be curious for an explanation as to why this does occur. One of those things I do find slightly annoying.

For the record, I did normalize the tracks.
I conducted several tests and found that the normalized tracks had more clarity at lower volumes in addition to sounding that bit 'sharper'

I appreciate everyone's opinions in this thread though. I always like to hear both sides of any debate.

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normalizing can only degrade a signal. You are pretty much boosting the noise floor so it is essentially a pointless process not to say it doesn't have its place. It doesn't sound better, just louder which is what most people would call better but there are better ways to get the loudness by using less destructive processing.

First off, you have to understand that vinyl was mastered differently. Vinyl has much less bass and overall a different EQ profile. To rip vinyl , you essentially need to master the track for digital mediums.

There are some programs by Izotope that do this and have presets if you aren't too tech savy. Try to stay away from the normalize button.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Sep-15-2011 at 02:43

quote:

Originally posted by A.B It has always been the case with my own mixer (and most other mixers I have used) that in stereo, there seems to be a slightly offset balance in favour of the right channel. I recall having pondered this years ago but was advised that when the mixer is set to 'mono' the levels will always be equal. I have never had anyone mention such a slight offset in channels before in respect of my mixes so I suspect it is barely noticeable (as a matter of fact, it isn't really)

the needle might set be a bit off-center on the tone arm.

quote:

Originally posted by A.B Okay so far I have ripped about 10 vinyl. I am happy with the results but have one small discrepancy. It has always been the case with my own mixer (and most other mixers I have used) that in stereo, there seems to be a slightly offset balance in favour of the right channel. I recall having pondered this years ago but was advised that when the mixer is set to 'mono' the levels will always be equal. I have never had anyone mention such a slight offset in channels before in respect of my mixes so I suspect it is barely noticeable (as a matter of fact, it isn't really) That being said, I would be curious for an explanation as to why this does occur. One of those things I do find slightly annoying. For the record, I did normalize the tracks. I conducted several tests and found that the normalized tracks had more clarity at lower volumes in addition to sounding that bit 'sharper' I appreciate everyone's opinions in this thread though. I always like to hear both sides of any debate.

Tonearm, cartridge and anti-skating settings all have an effect on the loudness differences of the left and right channels. I've got some vinyls where the other channel is noticeably louder than the other, even though other vinyls play just fine. One vinyl for example is a lot thicker than my other records. Not sure if that is the only explanation for its loudness differences or is it just a bad pressing. Anyway the problem is easily solved by adjusting your tonearm, cart and anti-skating properly and if you happen to have the odd vinyl every now and then that has another channel louder than the other, it's easy to normalize the channels separately to the same peak dB value (once you've removed all the pops and clicks that peak higher than any of the actual music on the record). This usually results in the channels having the same perceived volume, but not always. It can be easily visually inspected in your wave editor though. If your cart and tonearm are set up correctly, I'd try lowering the anti-skating.

Also switching the signal to mono from the mixer sums both channels together and feeds that same signal from both channels. As both of the channels have the exact same signal, there should be no volume differences, unless it's an issue with your mixer or sound card, which it most likely isn't.

Peak normalization is a completely nondestructive processing method if you stay at or below 0 dB. All it does, is raise the signal to the set dB value, ie makes things louder. Yes, it also boosts the noise floor as does a tweak of the volume knob but as it does not affect the dynamics at all, it does not do any harm.

Normalizing should not provide any added clarity or sharpness. Only thing I can think of that would explain this is if you controlling the volume digitally and the recorded signal amplitude has been very low. Then you'd get rid of some of the noise by normalizing when setting the volume level to be the same from your receiver/whatever analogically. As digital volume control does nothing to change the noise floor of the hardware while with an analog volume control, the noise floor increases/decreases with volume adjustment, generally speaking at least. I doubt any of this would be noticeable though, unless you have a really bad sound card with loads of noise on the output. But with digital signals it's always better to have the signal at the maximum non-clipping level when it exits the outputs. The effects of this can be easily tested by playing something in iTunes for example with a crappy integrated sound card and lowering the volume from the iTunes slider to as low as you can and then adjusting the volume to be about the same on the receiver as it would be if the slider would be at the max position. You should be able to hear a lot more noise when the volume from iTunes has been adjust to the lowest possible setting.

Sorry for the long and incoherent rant. Just woke up and am in bit of a hurry.

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Peak normalization is not non destructive. I understand how one would think this as the process seems rather transparent but it usually involves some process where rounding and quantization errors will occur. Does it matter ? Probably not. You won't ever catch a mastering engineer using that function as it serves no purpose. And if they do, they won't ever admit to it.

I suppose it all depends on your goal. If it is just for home use, sure normalize to your hearts content but if I were to run a mastering house and found an engineer normalizing material, he / she would be out of job.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

So played out last night with a lot of these tracks I had ripped from vinyl....

The sound quality was absolutely fine on the sound system. Very happy with it.

Thanks again for all the advice folks.

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quote:

Originally posted by skip Tonearm, cartridge and anti-skating settings all have an effect on the loudness differences of the left and right channels. I've got some vinyls where the other channel is noticeably louder than the other, even though other vinyls play just fine. One vinyl for example is a lot thicker than my other records. Not sure if that is the only explanation for its loudness differences or is it just a bad pressing. Anyway the problem is easily solved by adjusting your tonearm, cart and anti-skating properly and if you happen to have the odd vinyl every now and then that has another channel louder than the other, it's easy to normalize the channels separately to the same peak dB value (once you've removed all the pops and clicks that peak higher than any of the actual music on the record). This usually results in the channels having the same perceived volume, but not always. It can be easily visually inspected in your wave editor though. If your cart and tonearm are set up correctly, I'd try lowering the anti-skating. Also switching the signal to mono from the mixer sums both channels together and feeds that same signal from both channels. As both of the channels have the exact same signal, there should be no volume differences, unless it's an issue with your mixer or sound card, which it most likely isn't. Peak normalization is a completely nondestructive processing method if you stay at or below 0 dB. All it does, is raise the signal to the set dB value, ie makes things louder. Yes, it also boosts the noise floor as does a tweak of the volume knob but as it does not affect the dynamics at all, it does not do any harm. Normalizing should not provide any added clarity or sharpness. Only thing I can think of that would explain this is if you controlling the volume digitally and the recorded signal amplitude has been very low. Then you'd get rid of some of the noise by normalizing when setting the volume level to be the same from your receiver/whatever analogically. As digital volume control does nothing to change the noise floor of the hardware while with an analog volume control, the noise floor increases/decreases with volume adjustment, generally speaking at least. I doubt any of this would be noticeable though, unless you have a really bad sound card with loads of noise on the output. But with digital signals it's always better to have the signal at the maximum non-clipping level when it exits the outputs. The effects of this can be easily tested by playing something in iTunes for example with a crappy integrated sound card and lowering the volume from the iTunes slider to as low as you can and then adjusting the volume to be about the same on the receiver as it would be if the slider would be at the max position. You should be able to hear a lot more noise when the volume from iTunes has been adjust to the lowest possible setting. Sorry for the long and incoherent rant. Just woke up and am in bit of a hurry.

Just learn to use the GAINS knobs and forget the rest!

Why don't turntables have 1/4" outs? It feels stupid having to run it through a mixer instead of just plugging the tables directly into the audio interface. RCA only because of the ground or something...?

it needs a RIAA anyway. phono/rca is the homeaudio standard. turntables are in most cases considered homeaudio. and how many dj-mixers have 1/4 inputs???? none of the ones ive had.

anyone notice that skip stopped posting? couldn't handle being so wrong?

amateurs.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Oh, preese, so sorree for intorrerance fwum esss russer. He maka fun of you because you tarking in racial stereotype. I aporogize for heem. He not know how behave. Preeze accept aporogee. Ching chang chow yun fat, Mr. Roboto.

quote:

Originally posted by clay it needs a RIAA anyway. phono/rca is the homeaudio standard. turntables are in most cases considered homeaudio. and how many dj-mixers have 1/4 inputs???? none of the ones ive had.

This should all be changed now. No one uses turntables anymore aside from DJ culture.