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Originally posted by skyhunter I just thought this was about breakdowns.

and build-ups..

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I will happily tell every inexperienced producer to never, ever copy a formula if they want to make interesting and involving music.

That's just bad advice because every producer learns by trying to copy someone else.

Burial tried to copy El B, but failed and ended up with his own sound.

edit: Do you produce at all? Or just DJ?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

here's a huge build-up..

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Originally posted by Beatflux That's just bad advice because every producer learns by trying to copy someone else.

Good, so I'm not going crazy. Seriously, who the hell tries to steer someone who's inexperienced in the direction of making creative, interesting, unique music? You have to start somewhere.. focusing on that sort of thing early on is pointless.

OP - import a track you admire and copy the essence of the breakdown, mapping where things fall and how they rise.

One thing I would think you might want to try and avoid is what I call the 'film score inserted into a track' type break where there is too little relationship between the break and the rest of the track and where there is a lack of dancey vibe comming from the instruments. Some producers have pulled off a 'film score break' well, but honestly most end up wronging it.

By all means slow it all down, leach out all the percs and even go to silence but just avoid a dog charity cheesey advert score sandwiched into a track.

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https://soundcloud.com/butlerrichard

Ooh, conflicting philosophies! *grabs popcorn*

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Originally posted by Beatflux That's just bad advice because every producer learns by trying to copy someone else. Burial tried to copy El B, but failed and ended up with his own sound.

I think it was Picasso that said that in order to become a master yourself at a specific art, you'll have to attempt copying the works of other masters of the same art. The mistakes you will make will be what defines your style.

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An ideadump

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Originally posted by pointPi Ooh, conflicting philosophies! *grabs popcorn* I think it was Picasso that said that in order to become a master yourself at a specific art, you'll have to attempt copying the works of other masters of the same art. The mistakes you will make will be what defines your style.

I think this is spot on. Burial said he tried for YEARS trying to copy El B, but he just could not do it. In the end, I honestly think he came out with something better, but that's also just my personal opinion. I can understand the frustration of not being able to mimic someone's style who you admire.

Even if you could complete copy someone else style complete, everyone just has a different set of influences.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

I understand your advice on being creative trying to avoid a formula, but sincerely...how could I break the rules if I don't even know them.
At the stage I am, would be happy if I could simply finish a track!

I've tried to replicate some breaks, but mine were somehow souless and cold. That's why I asked for the common filters and fx used in breaks. Most of the times it doesn't seem simply a rising cutoff filter. And I guess a key role could play a melody of 3 or more chords?


Regarding the build-up, I am really at 0.
1/16 + volume automation? Is it just that? And what instrument should I use?


As you see I really miss the basics. These things are probably a joke for many of you.

And specials thanks to DjRyan for his great practical advices. That's what I need.

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Originally posted by future_newbie These things are probably a joke for many of you.

It's not that it's a joke. It's that its complexity defies a simple explanation. Even if you had a specific example of a sound you're trying to emulate, you're going to get ten different answers, many of which are incompatible with one another, from ten different people attempting to explain to you, how to get that sound.

I learned by emulating. I didn't ask a lot of questions about it. I just liked what I heard, tried translating that into my own tracks, made a LOT of mistakes along the way and, through those mistakes, acquired techniques elemental to my sound.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I have to mirror a lot of what's being said here but especially Richard Butlers comment on mirroring one of your favorite tracks.

What's he's talking about is pretty simple, but can go a long way in helping not only your song structure, but will force you to create the sounds necessary in order to make a decent track- theoretically.

You should go through your music library and find a song you really like. Then, import that into your DAW.

Within that DAW make sure you have some 'basic' percussion elements, a bass, and maybe your melody. Then, mirror the track. Take your kick first and follow along with the track. Line it up perfectly. You should immediatley notice that not everything lines up on a 4, 8, 16, or 32. It's more like 4 1/32 or 4 1/16. Once you got the drums mirroring what your favorite track is doing. Put the bass in where the bass comes in. When the phrase skips a few beats, you skip a few beats. When it breaks you break. Just mirror the song. Including the build-up and the break.

Like I said it will force you to be creative, but also, will enhance your track because your following a song structure that will not only follow the "rules" but can be managed/played by a dj.

And speaking of those "rules"

Dude, they're unspoken. I've been in this for 10 years djing. Either you get it or you think you get it, or you don't. The fundamentals are sometimes referred to e.g.: 16, 32 beats/phrases etc. But noone comes out and says these are the "rules"

But I'm down for sharing whatever it is I know. Trust me when I say that I've battled througha lot of frustrations behind the turntables, and in the studio.

Just keep at it and do it for noone else but you.

Yes, I have the same problem! DIfficult to get good breaks + build ups!

But I think, I have learned a bit from songs I like. Usually songs I listen + like have similar structure, but the sounds are different, feeling is different. So it feels fresh and different even the structure is pretty much same.