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Originally posted by Maaz I would do anything, but killing them, otherwise, we would be the same thing. Numbers don't matter, life does

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thanks, at least one TA with healthy values..

wow, after reading this thread, i am seriously disappointed in the number of people who seem to value life not even close to as much as i do..

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

I actually find this thread quite disturbing for a couple reasons. The first reason is there is so much hipocrisy its incredible. How can you kill someone for killing someone else? Weres the logic in that one? Secondly I don't belive in vigilante justice. And lastly im getting pretty fucking sick of every thread turning into something spetember 11th related.

One BIG problem that'll NEVER (obviously) go away is that WHATEVER is done to punish those that commit crimes such as murder, rape, and beating children, isn't going to solve what just happened. If someone kills an innocent child, what REALLY CAN BE DONE? Even if you were to give the BIGGEST punishment imaginable to the criminal, that'll NEVER take cares of what the ENTIRE family and everyone the child knew now have to deal with: The loss of a loved one, FOREVER. Has anyone on here thought about that yet? No matter WHAT you do to the criminal, be it torture him/her, the family/everyone else (ESPECIALLY the parents of the child) will have to suffer and deal with something that SHOULDN'T HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, for the rest of their lives. Now that you thought about it: It IS pretty hard, isn't it? I believe that any family that has to go through this should be given the RIGHT to CHOOSE what they want to do to this menace that'll make them feel better. The worst thing about this is: It usually wouldn't matter WHAT you do to the criminal because chances are, after you do whatever you want to do to the criminal, YOU'LL STILL FEEL TERRIBLE AND SAD BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED...

I want to see your opinion (s) on this...

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Originally posted by drizzt81 what happens, if you find out that he was not guilty, about two months later? oh, oops! We are sorry sir, we know that you are in major pain and will die within the next couple of years, but look at the bright side, you are free again. Damn, just reading this post made me sick. Do you know _HOW_ perverted u sound? I mean, u seem to ENJOY looking at people suffer.. maybe that should be a crime to and looking at your current values (when it comes to punishment), we should make u suffer too.

Now whoa, whoa, whoa! Sorry if I didn't make myself clear on this but, THERE IS NUMEROUS EVIDENCE THAT DEFINITELY LINKS HIM/HER TO THE CRIME. This should be done AFTER he is PROVEN TO BE GUILTY. [EDIT: 2002-09-01 23:23 UTC- added this: NOW, what about my 2nd paragraph?]

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Originally posted by ali92 One BIG problem that'll NEVER (obviously) go away is that WHATEVER is done to punish those that commit crimes such as murder, rape, and beating children, isn't going to solve what just happened. If someone kills an innocent child, what REALLY CAN BE DONE? Even if you were to give the BIGGEST punishment imaginable to the criminal, that'll NEVER take cares of what the ENTIRE family and everyone the child knew now have to deal with: The loss of a loved one, FOREVER. Has anyone on here thought about that yet? No matter WHAT you do to the criminal, be it torture him/her, the family/everyone else (ESPECIALLY the parents of the child) will have to suffer and deal with something that SHOULDN'T HAVE NEVER HAPPENED, for the rest of their lives. Now that you thought about it: It IS pretty hard, isn't it? I believe that any family that has to go through this should be given the RIGHT to CHOOSE what they want to do to this menace that'll make them feel better. The worst thing about this is: It usually wouldn't matter WHAT you do to the criminal because chances are, after you do whatever you want to do to the criminal, YOU'LL STILL FEEL TERRIBLE AND SAD BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED... I want to see your opinion (s) on this...

yes, TWO WRONGS make a right. I get it now, you have opened my EYES. Let's start introducing chinese torturing tactics into american prisons.. (no offense to be taken from Far-eastern people, but from my knowledge, there is little done for human right inside of a prison)

I mean Ali, u are surely someone who is ALL FOR importing american values into china, but if you go ahead with the whole aids thought, you know, that the US wouldn't be that much different from China anymore...

argl, I cannot argue this on the web, I know I suck, since I cannot IMAGINE that anyone would ever even THINK along the lines of Tiesto and you.. it just doesn't go into my head, i am sorry, maybe i am too stupid to see what has enlightened u.

oh one more point:
If someone can put a 'lol' inside a thread that discussed the DEATH PENALTY, it appears to me, that there is something WRONG with that person? How can u laugh when it comes to a topic such as KILLING people? Maybe you are as 'sick' as people who kill/ rape little children?

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

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Originally posted by drizzt81 yes, TWO WRONGS make a right. I get it now, you have opened my EYES. Let's start introducing chinese torturing tactics into american prisons.. (no offense to be taken from Far-eastern people, but from my knowledge, there is little done for human right inside of a prison) I mean Ali, u are surely someone who is ALL FOR importing american values into china, but if you go ahead with the whole aids thought, you know, that the US wouldn't be that much different from China anymore... argl, I cannot argue this on the web, I know I suck, since I cannot IMAGINE that anyone would ever even THINK along the lines of Tiesto and you.. it just doesn't go into my head, i am sorry, maybe i am too stupid to see what has enlightened u. oh one more point: If someone can put a 'lol' inside a thread that discussed the DEATH PENALTY, it appears to me, that there is something WRONG with that person? How can u laugh when it comes to a topic such as KILLING people? Maybe you are as 'sick' as people who kill/ rape little children?

Can u describe these "Chinese torturing tactics"? I don't know EXACTLY what KIND of "torturing tactics"you are speaking of. Also, what "values" are you talking about? Can you explain please? Thanks!

The Death Penalty is an interesting question of ethics, by executing the murderer, the country in question is proving themselves to be no better than the murderer IMHO.

I won't even go into the costs associated with the system due to repeated appeals in the States, and no, I'm not for reducing the number of appeals either, that'd just mean you'd have more people being executed!

Life imprisonment gives people time to reflect on what they did, and god forbid, better themselves.

Maybe it's just because I'm not a christian, but the eye for an eye thing has never been my cup of tea. Punishment is one thing, killing someone for their crime is quite another. If you're worried about reoccurence of something like murder then just keep them in prison until you're at a point where they're either dead of extreme old age, or to where they're reformed to the point of no longer being a risk in the eyes of a panel of psychiatrists.

In the long run it costs less to imprison someone for life in the States than it does to try and execute them because of the legal costs.

In short, no, I never support the death penalty. It can never compare to the punishment of life imprisonment, and with that life sentencing you also have the chance to set the person free if new evidence that comes up to exonerate them, which isn't exactly possible if they've been killed and buried in the meantime.

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Originally posted by ali92 Can u describe these "Chinese torturing tactics"? I don't know EXACTLY what KIND of "torturing tactics"you are speaking of. Also, what "values" are you talking about? Can you explain please? Thanks!

ok, simple

Values: A set of morals that a person deems is correct. This is independs of time and location. In the end, there is a set of 'rules' that one believes are true. Anyone breaking the rules, one sees as having done something wrong, even if it may be legal in the country this was done in.
sorry, my english is not good enough to come up with a better, more universal definition.

Torturing: Go to a chinese prison and look at some human rights activists and you will see.

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

sorry but I was in jury duty once...they asked me if I had anything against than man...and I responded with "YES, KILL'EM!!!" And they took me out of the court room and I've never been called back. Sorry went off on a tangent

Armando

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Originally posted by CortexBomb The Death Penalty is an interesting question of ethics, by executing the murderer, the country in question is proving themselves to be no better than the murderer IMHO. I won't even go into the costs associated with the system due to repeated appeals in the States, and no, I'm not for reducing the number of appeals either, that'd just mean you'd have more people being executed! Life imprisonment gives people time to reflect on what they did, and god forbid, better themselves. Maybe it's just because I'm not a christian, but the eye for an eye thing has never been my cup of tea. Punishment is one thing, killing someone for their crime is quite another. If you're worried about reoccurence of something like murder then just keep them in prison until you're at a point where they're either dead of extreme old age, or to where they're reformed to the point of no longer being a risk in the eyes of a panel of psychiatrists. In the long run it costs less to imprison someone for life in the States than it does to try and execute them because of the legal costs. In short, no, I never support the death penalty. It can never compare to the punishment of life imprisonment, and with that life sentencing you also have the chance to set the person free if new evidence that comes up to exonerate them, which isn't exactly possible if they've been killed and buried in the meantime.

Now wait a minute! This would be good ONLY if not enough evidence is available to 100% prove that he/she did the crime. If it's a FACT that this person committed the Life-enprisonment crime and he/she gets life in prison, there's no way that anyone will ever know that this criminal "bettered" him/herself because you can "behave" good from SECOND ONE on. It's possible to listen to the guards and do whatever needs to be done PERFECTLY. What can be done then? I can keep going on and on...

Murder is wrong, whether committed by an individual or the government.

But if you were going to execute people for crimes I could think of no better place to start than all those cynical, mean spirited, hateful, morally bankrupt politicians and businessmen who kill, steal, impoverish and destroy the lives of the weak and powerless but dress up their crimes in cliches like "zero tolerance" or "christian values" or "globalisation" and my favorite "free trade"

Those people kill more people every day than the guys on deathrow ever did.