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Originally posted by itsamemario So I'm gonna say it's all user error that's fucking up your computer.

this. and a mac can just as easily be fucked up by noobs, and then they cant ask friends for help either cause no one of the friends have that shit. glad i sold my mac the day steven jobbs died, my DIY barebone with Win8 works awesome.

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Originally posted by itsamemario lol u noob mac fanboiiiii. there are seven ways to cancel that. but any smart person would have bothered filling out page asking u about automatic updates when installing the OS, instead of just hitting next like a fucking noob _YOU_ made that problem, not Windows And none of the other scenarios have ever happened to me, and I'm also using a Asus laptop.. So I'm gonna say it's all user error that's fucking up your computer.

Sorry Alfi, I know you're always at least in semi troll mode so I always take what you say with a lorry full of salt, but you can't try to blame user error on what everyone knows is a bloated turd of an OS. Windows 8 is a fucking joke, windows 7 took two service packs to get up to the stability of XP which sadly for Micro$oft, was the last decent OS they were able to make.

Bear in mind, I built audio PC's for a living for 5 years ans started programming my own games at age 6 so I know a little about computers

The critical windows updates are not user selectable so it's not a matter of having automatic updates switched off ...but here's the irony of what you're suggesting:

As I have automatic updates switched off I've missed over 100 updates by windows (as mentioned, I lost count at around 130) and that means none of those needed bug fixes, security patches, and system tweaks are getting applied, so it's damned if you do, and fisted if you don't.

You're absolutely deluded if you think Windows 7 or 8 aren't embarrassments. M$ just announced that, wait for it, 30% of the worlds PC's still haven't switched to another OS. Sure, a chunk of those are your mum and dad who still don't like that stuff that comes out of wires to make light and heat etc, but there's also big chunk of people of who saw Vista, Win7 and Win8 and just quietly said, Lol, not going to happen.

And guess what M$'s official statement was about xp? We are discontinuing support for XP, and that means the OS will suddenly become awash with virii and malware, so you better buy one one of our new operating systems now.

So M$ knows that XP is going to get flooded with virii and malware do they? Funny that especially considering sales of Win 8 have been so poor.

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Originally posted by itsamemario And you're totally wrong on the mac pro's gonna sell. They're not. Mac as a desktop is something only old farts cling to. They've tipped, all reports support this, and they're not likely to invest much money in an ever-decreasing market, being the cash-hungry company they are. But don't worry, soon you will get Logic for your MacPad, and it will be as powerful as any mac pro has ever been. the design of the new mac pro is proof of this. that round tube looking thing doesnt even resemble a desktop/workstation. it's the last-gen hybrid thing, before they scrap the line altogether. It's the fucking iTrashcan.

I could well be wrong, but given what i know, I believe they'll sell like fucking hotcakes. I actually agree that this shape/incantation may well be the last gen of apple pro's in a desktop form, but that's because the gap between imac and mac pro has been getting ever smaller. The processing you can get out of a an all in one, especially given the value of said computers is starting to negate the need for dedicated "pro" level computers all together. I have been the one arguing on here that moores law is slowing to a crawl.

One thing you're missing though alfi, is that the average web surfing pleb or office dweeb is no longer buying desktops, and that used to be the lions share of the market. Those breeds are buying tablets/surfaces as they don't need more and it fits with the mobile nature of business now.
But professional users can't use photoshop/illustrator/indesign on an ipad or surface. We can't mix a score with 500+ tracks on even your top of the line macbook pro.

For anyone using computers in a time = $ environment, the Mac Pro's can't come soon enough.

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Originally posted by UrbanNinja I use my samsung windows laptop for djing now because i get better response than the mac but when it comes to producing call me a apple fan boy.

but does your samsung has pcie ssd with better audio? didnt think so. to get max out of your djeing you need ssd you know.

It's all about personal preference I actually bought the PC for gaming and one day decided hey lets try traktor did my a/b test wit my
MBP and I desired the Samsung PC without SSD. I'll buy a new PC with PCIE when it comes out

Only problem is that I'm spinning at 512 latency

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PCs are fucking stressful. You need to know alot of computers do run a smooth build and you cannot go on the internet and well, the amount of time you actually put in running the system. I really don't see how this is a preference but rather something forced upon users that refuse to pay the money they are charging for the same fucking computer they sold 4 years ago ......


and if you want to do networking between computers, you need a BA in computer science for things to run well.

Having said that, they are more powerful. I just use it for streaming samples and running big chains of fx and it seems to just be more efficient.

And I also recently got into design as a hobby and pcs just have more options for video cards

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Windows 7 has been flawless for me - easily the best Windows ive ever used

(i still want a new Mac Pro )

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has it been tho ?

i mean from purchase to play. how many hours. How many updates. restarts. What a pita to

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney has it been tho ? i mean from purchase to play. how many hours. How many updates. restarts. What a pita to

That's what I'm getting at. Windows 7 is a damn site better than Windows 8 but all the updates, addons, virus programs, malware removers, and that's aside from the fact you have do to several hours of things to the OS in terms of options just to get optimum performance out of it (and you can search on here for the list of tips I did to optimise Windows 7).

Some programs require you to install very large missing components like (.net framework) and as Richie says, if you really don't want to worry about it, then have it isolated from the net.......awwww, snap. no updates for you unless you to the redistributable method but again after doing that 140 times you will telling Tim cook to shut up take your parents money.

Videocards are for more abundant for PC's - it's the nature of the beast; Apple are designed to work with a few aprroved choices of hardware and the EFI and OS are built with that in mind and is therefore far less bloated.

Windows has always tried to be all things to all people in all configurations. More flexible yes (by far), but far more conflicts, bugs, updates, drivers, patches etc.

Once you get past the "I love tinkering" phase with computers, you just don't care. I know a lot of people that love their PC's because they love to endlessly tinker or see it as a challenge to do something. I see the merit and still do it myself from time to time, but daily use, or when you're trying to work or just want the thing to work? No, thanks.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN That's what I'm getting at. Windows 7 is a damn site better than Windows 8 but all the updates, addons, virus programs, malware removers, and that's aside from the fact you have do to several hours of things to the OS in terms of options just to get optimum performance out of it (and you can search on here for the list of tips I did to optimise Windows 7). Some programs require you to install very large missing components like (.net framework) and as Richie says, if you really don't want to worry about it, then have it isolated from the net.......awwww, snap. no updates for you unless you to the redistributable method but again after doing that 140 times you will telling Tim cook to shut up take your parents money. Videocards are for more abundant for PC's - it's the nature of the beast; Apple are designed to work with a few aprroved choices of hardware and the EFI and OS are built with that in mind and is therefore far less bloated. Windows has always tried to be all things to all people in all configurations. More flexible yes (by far), but far more conflicts, bugs, updates, drivers, patches etc. Once you get past the "I love tinkering" phase with computers, you just don't care. I know a lot of people that love their PC's because they love to endlessly tinker or see it as a challenge to do something. I see the merit and still do it myself from time to time, but daily use, or when you're trying to work or just want the thing to work? No, thanks.

hmmmmmmm

well, for me the updates are optional, i dont have to install them if i dont want to - but if i do then they install in the background
Windows will prompt to install but this can be postponed up to 4hrs - should really be an option "postpone until next reboot"

As for optimizing Windows 7 - have never seen the need to further optimize it personally, its grand how it is for me - i often wonder is this where problems begin when people start tinkering with various hidden settings and the like

also no virus scanners or malware removers for me - havent needed them (PC is always connected to the internet also)

my PC is custom built so maybe this has something to do with the stability i experience? i dont know....

p.s. im also an OS X user

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I had to manually set the timing and voltage of my ram. Regular 1600 dual channel . I mean if you were like a due step producer, what the fuck would you do .

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Originally posted by evo8 hmmmmmmm well, for me the updates are optional, i dont have to install them if i dont want to - but if i do then they install in the background Windows will prompt to install but this can be postponed up to 4hrs - should really be an option "postpone until next reboot"

But that's my point. If you don't get the optional updates, then you're fucked as your computer will have all the bugs and security issues and probably needed compenents missing. Prompt to install only lets you postpone by a max for four hours and at some point you have to give in and let it do it. Mac? You get a reminder and they just install next time you power down and it's all automatic.

IT IS FUCKING PROMPTING ME RIGHT NOW

HOW MANY FUCKING UPDATES DO YOU NEED WINDOWS?

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Originally posted by evo8 As for optimizing Windows 7 - have never seen the need to further optimize it personally, its grand how it is for me - i often wonder is this where problems begin when people start tinkering with various hidden settings and the like

And that means you're missing out on about 15% better performance. Again, it goes back to the thing about windows having to be all things to all people; there's so many processes going on that don't apply to our uses as DAW's that by not switching them off, you're losing that extra performance. Christ, just switching off the stuff to make windows look nice will get you about 7%.

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Originally posted by evo8 also no virus scanners or malware removers for me - havent needed them (PC is always connected to the internet also)

I liken this to Richie's annual trip to Thailand; just because he doesn;t go to the clinic when he comes back, doesn't mean he's not go the Hiv. You know what I mean? Same thing.

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Originally posted by evo8 my PC is custom built so maybe this has something to do with the stability i experience? i dont know.... p.s. im also an OS X user

Nothing to do with it. You probably experience a little more performance because your was custom built and didn't have all the extra bloatware that comes with off the shelf PC's these days.

First thing I do if I buy a new laptop is format it. I don't bother trying to use it until that is done first. But then it's a minimum of a 4 hours process just to get it all setup again. I mean shit, even with an SSD and using the unmanned install option still takes windows 45 mins, and that's before you have to install all your device drivers and programs.

And yes, I've also had to do shit like fuck with Ram voltages and clock cycles just to get shit working as it should do.

As mentioned previously, intels built in video chip on this laptop only works properly with a specific historic video driver version, and guess what? Windows keeps hassling me to change it to the latest, so I can have BSOD all over again.

I still like windows for certain things but when even Bill Gates is admitting our PC's would be at least a decade more advanced had they not been competing and by their own admission, M$ didn't purposely go the adverse and less efficient way around things just because Apple came up with it first and they needed to be different, should make you question why you use it.

This thing about the extra performance from tweaks... if these gains are there to be had then i dont understand why MS dont have these features enabled from the get-go??
There have to be reasons why these things are disabled by default, no? 15% sounds like a lot to be gained

Having to change RAM timings and CPU clock speeds just to get Windows to work - you shouldnt have to do that, i cant explain that one

anyways, horses for courses and all that

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