seriously..the whole itb vs otb things is not even about the sound quality..i'd rather use soft synths than real ones...they sound just as good and theyre way more pratical..for performance that another thing....but studio? you make great quality music without any analog gear whatsoever. the real argument of otb vs itb is not about sound quality it's about workflow...and performance style.....working only in a daw....is not good obviously. the daw mindset...is all about arrangment....especially if you dont use live. it puts you ina na arrangment song composition focus....whether you ralize it or not...it's subconscious...this is not how good dance music gets created....yes you can make the song exactly 128 bars long and have each break come at the exact right time...but the song will be static....because your not making music you clicking a mouse as the midi plays the notes....the best electonica is made using live sequencing....real knobs real faders....simple track count...simple tracks...but with lots of evolving textures...simple tracks but long evolutins of suond....knob tweaking and a slower tempo....125 at most...because you cant sequence songs live that are much hfaster than that, and theres no groove. this is my thoughts as of this point any way....maybe you might find them interesting...and this is not a DJ perspective clearly....hey DJing you can have tracks 200 bpm because there already canned for you....

No, It's vey much about sound quality, both sources and processing.
I do agree that one should be able to make half decent tracks fully ITB.

But OTB is a whole different universe. This is seperate from a workflow discussion. I've pissed off the whole software crew at Gearslutz posting some API2500 with Lindell PEX500 EQ processed files
also provided the source files, asked them if they could match it.
topic on fire

We can do it here too, if you feel like it.
both plugins can be demoed for free.

Just out of interest what kind of high-end gear do you currently own?
Again I'm not saying you can't get half decent results with software only, but clean software tracks, processed through a balanced outboard chain just sounds so much better than any ITB plugin chain that you stack on top.

quote:

Originally posted by inversoundzzz seriously..the whole itb vs otb things is not even about the sound quality..i'd rather use soft synths than real ones...they sound just as good and theyre way more pratical..for performance that another thing....but studio? you make great quality music without any analog gear whatsoever. the real argument of otb vs itb is not about sound quality it's about workflow...and performance style.....working only in a daw....is not good obviously. the daw mindset...is all about arrangment....especially if you dont use live. it puts you ina na arrangment song composition focus....whether you ralize it or not...it's subconscious...this is not how good dance music gets created....yes you can make the song exactly 128 bars long and have each break come at the exact right time...but the song will be static....because your not making music you clicking a mouse as the midi plays the notes....the best electonica is made using live sequencing....real knobs real faders....simple track count...simple tracks...but with lots of evolving textures...simple tracks but long evolutins of suond....knob tweaking and a slower tempo....125 at most...because you cant sequence songs live that are much hfaster than that, and theres no groove. this is my thoughts as of this point any way....maybe you might find them interesting...and this is not a DJ perspective clearly....hey DJing you can have tracks 200 bpm because there already canned for you....

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Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

lol, it's all in your mind....lmao.....

actually speaking gearsluts, i just posted that post from here as a new thread omg lmao....

you know what youre doing man, as a studio guy... im talking more from a live performance perspective here. im not a studio engineer, im a musician...so Im not arguing over studio miniutia..i believe you.

Good

But seriously, I do agree with your statement above, tweaking without a screen does a lot to the recording.

But I guess what i'm trying to say is that there are a lot of different perspectives:

- what music do you like
- what kind of sound do you like, warm, thin, polished, raw etc

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Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie I'm not sure I get your cook kitchen thing, prof cooks do have preferences in kitchens. a nice stream oven get's you very different results than a standard microwave, you get that right?

But that doesn't necessarily mean people with the better gear automatically produce better results . Robert Babicz for instance, his tracks can sound warm as fuck with his famed analogue approach, his mixdowns are incredibly tight but still most of his productions make me feel dead inside. Warmth is nice but not should at all a goal in itself.

I've never invested in something consiously to actively persue warmth in my own productions and I don't really mind either. Especially right now when I put creating my own music on the backburner (to stay in the realms of cooking).


It's just your statement about digital warmth being an oxymoron. Just because you haven't managed to figure it out (which applies to me as well) doesn't mean it does not exist.

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Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Oct-20-2014 at 14:59

Agreed but that's a different discussion
I'm talking warmth / absolute sound quality from an engineering perspective, not whether the productions themselves are even remotely interesting. You can not offset one with the other.

Just to be clear I HAVE figured out the full potential of the current plugins available. In general i prefer plugins for surgical work, much more precise than analogue, however for vibe, or harmonics analogue is still king. Talking purely semantecs, you might be right that there is still untapped potential in digital, not yet captured in plugins. Once it's there i'm pretty sure I'll embrace it.

I'm not against digital, or an analogue fetishist. I'm working hybrid, but I do recognize horses for courses

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Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

Last edited by Raphie on Oct-20-2014 at 15:22

quote:

Originally posted by inversoundzzz lol, it's all in your mind....lmao..... actually speaking gearsluts, i just posted that post from here as a new thread omg lmao.... you know what youre doing man, as a studio guy... im talking more from a live performance perspective here. im not a studio engineer, im a musician...so Im not arguing over studio miniutia..i believe you.

That went well https://www.gearslutz.com/board/ele...t-workflow.html

Don't want to be pain, but again, what gear do you own? please shoot a pic with a paper reading TA2015 on top of it

you sound like someone who started ITB and spend to much time on forums absorbing other ITB guys opinions. Get some real world experience first. And then re-read what you have been posting above.
Ofcourse you can blow us all away with your outboard collection which makes your opinion an informed one, an unconventional one, but informed...

Again I'm not saying ITB is bad or something, just saying analogue stretches a lot further depending on what you're after ofcourse.

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Analogue Mastering
Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by inversoundzzz im not a studio engineer

No. No you most certainly are not.

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Soundcloud

Been lurking this like mad.

Uh la la la.

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cit. "Back then people danced to a dj set. Nowdays they are recording it with their smart phones."

I have a question for bluffmunkey.

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cit. "Back then people danced to a dj set. Nowdays they are recording it with their smart phones."

Radiators work too. And thick curtains.