death penalty is the stupidest thing ever!!! you cannot settle a kill with another. I dont wanna know, how many innocent people were murdered so far in the USA by the state.

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Originally posted by Stiffmaster death penalty is the stupidest thing ever!!! you cannot settle a kill with another. I dont wanna know, how many innocent people were murdered so far in the USA by the state.

yep,yep,yep...youre all right..
i think its more punishment for a murder to spend the rest of the life in prison-perhaps even in a single-cell , than to die in cause of an poison injection....thats just salvation...
and we dont really know whats o his mind...is he just crazy or is his mind completely ill...is he aware of what he did?

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Originally posted by starglider Bottom line: 1. It's been proven that the threat of the death penalty does not deter murderers. 2. Innocent people have and will continue to die by capital punishment (as Arbiter mentioned). 3. Killing the murderer doesn't bring back the victim, nor does it make the family feel better.

Exactly.

If someone can give me a reason why the death penalty is preferable to a life sentence then I'll be willing to listen, but all the arguments offered here are either based entirely on emotion ("but they don't deserve to live!") or are entirely incorrect ("it costs less to put a man to death than to put him in jail for life").

One who wills the death of another human being is one who needs his moral spectrum re-alligned.

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all i have to say is that to me a death penalty is somewhat equivalent to euthanasia and im strongly opposed to the latter...therefore

I'll have to disagree with you here.

Every person has a "theoretical" point where life is no longer worth living. Personally, I can think of nothing more immoral than forcing someone to live in extreme pain for several months, with no hope of recovery, when all they want to do is end the agony. Kevin Phillips - who is the MP for my local area (a small area of Melbourne) - successfully overturned the legalisation of euthanasia in the Northern Territory (check your maps - central north of Australia, a long way away from where I live) and in doing so I effectively accuse him, directly, of being responsible for the torture of innocent civilians.

People deserve sanctity over their own lives. No-one - in the case of sending them to death or forcing them to live - has the right to take that away from them.

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Who benefits if they live?

Who benefits if they die?

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Well first of all there are some crimes far too henious to allow that person to live. Their mere presence on Earth pollutes it. Would you allow Hitler to live? After killing 6+ million innocent people would you allow him to enjoy the smallest shred pleasure he may gain from living the duration of his life?

You comparing the average person on death row to Adolf Hitler?

If the accused had killed 6 million people then it would be quite clear - especially if he were the leader of a powerful military force - that his death would be the only way of ending the terror. However, if you have your average "murderer" (if that is what he is being convicted for) in the docks, you can either end his presence in society by murdering him or by putting him in jail for the rest of his life. Either way, he is no longer a threat. What possible justification can there be in putting him to death? To reduce ourselves to the same, inhumane standards he has been accused of in the first place? Would you feel justified in doing that? Would you pull the switch?

Advocates of the death penalty, perhaps, should be made to watch an execution so that they can consider the situation on a personal, rather than an abstract, statistical level. As immorally as they may have acted, people convicted of crimes are still human. To deprive them of this fact is to return to the "eye for an eye" days of sub-intellectual savegery, where justice is reduced to a fallicious formula: one who does wrong deserves to have the wrong returned in full.

Where do you draw the line on who deserves the death penalty and who doesn't then? One convicted of manslaughter? One convicted of rape? What about one convicted of corporate embezzlement? Surely, on a utilitarianistic level, one who effectively robs money from enough people is responsible for as much misery as one who kills another human being?

Where is the line drawn?

___________________
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Not all the people who deserve to die unnaturally, actually die in that way. So unless someone is going to make sure that happens, everyone who supports death penalty is being a hypocrite.

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No Country, No Border, Fuck Law & Order.
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Fuck the World.
Man is the missing link between apes and human beings.

touchy topic, actually on this one im on the fence...

However, i am absolutely in favor of the death penality if someone has committed a horrendious crime and is a threat to society and endangers lives just by being alive. let me exlain, for example i belive if ossama were to be caught his death should be carried out swiftly. Ossama is a threat to the world and by locking him in prison you only serve to endanger the lives of the prison holders (or anyone else for that matter). it would not be unlikely that al-quida would try and seige the prison in order to save him. Or, al-quida could take hostages and demand the release of ossama in return for their lives. see in this case the threat that a man posses can only be eradicated through his death.

Now moving on to more day-to-day savage criminals. i do not belive someone should die for a murder or two, but when murders are taken to the extreme (there are horrible ways one can kill a person) or taken in mass quantities, be it random or selective (ie mafia) the death penality should have consideration. it is obvious the the person committing the crimes shows no care for life, so why his life worth caring for. this is the case in america, you have had to be convicted of a pretty foul stint of murders for the death penality to be considered.

now once it is considered, it is not a person who decides, but rather a jury who decides on the sentence. a jury is a representation of the people, the countries society and morals. we each now each society and culture has its own values and norms, and this regards to the life as well (topics such as euthanasia or abortion), who is to say that one society's morals are 'better' then another. sure you may think of the death penality as being hypocritical and lowering your standards to that of the criminal but others may see this as a way to rid the world of evil and to help calm the victims (yes, i'll admit if my family was murdered, i would take great pleasure in seeing the guy who killed them be put to death - ill even watch)

another thing to consider is that most the horrible serial killers have been physcos and mentaly inbalanced, in otherwards some are more prone to ravage killings just because of how they were born. i mean come on if the death penality doesnt scare you away from murdering someone there must be something wrong with your reasoning. for a sane person i belive the death penality is a deterent. so going back to the question at hand, should we kill someone just because they were born that way? its not their fault they lack the concept of wrong or right or are generally insane... but then agian every human alive should know the limits of action he is taking, otherwise he should be institutionlized right away.

btw, i was NOT aware the killing someone is more expensive then keeping someone alive... i still kind of find that hard to belive. But that is definitly something to consider.

___________________
If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by Renegade Who benefits if they die?

alot of people

society - losing one less idiotic,inhuman killer.
notice how I said inhuman? someone who kills for fun. kills just for the hell of it. is not human. why should he be treated as one?

family - the family of the individual(s) involved will benefit greatly; knowing their loved ones killer is dead. no longer breathing,living,relishing the moment they killed. this will make their pain a little less painful

me - yes i will benefit,so will my parents. the justice system is lame..someone on death row should not be living. after convicted they should be executed next week. that will greatly lower taxes,therefor benefiting me,you,everyone.

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this is it.

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Originally posted by Haunted alot of people society - losing one less idiotic,inhuman killer. notice how I said inhuman? someone who kills for fun. kills just for the hell of it. is not human. why should he be treated as one? family - the family of the individual(s) involved will benefit greatly; knowing their loved ones killer is dead. no longer breathing,living,relishing the moment they killed. this will make their pain a little less painful me - yes i will benefit,so will my parents. the justice system is lame..someone on death row should not be living. after convicted they should be executed next week. that will greatly lower taxes,therefor benefiting me,you,everyone.

yea well said, i mean honestly do you think the sniper (if the one they got is really him) well lets just say it is, do you think he should be allowed to live? Whats the point of him being alive? Seriously......Id say death penalty or slavery or something....and im sure all the people that lost the loved ones to the sniper would really rather him have the death penalty then just go through jail for the rest of his life....

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Originally posted by Nadi In recent threads people have made comments saying that when certain criminals are cought, they should face the death penalty. So I wanted to see what you all thought about the death penalty. Personally I am against the death penalty because at the very least its absolutly hypocritical to kill someone for killing another person. No one deserves to loose there life, and killing someone, wont bring another person back. Additionally, if you really wanted to punish someone there are probably better ways to do so. I personally would rather die, then say spend a few weeks in solitary confinment, especially knowing that I had killed or raped someone.

Well it saves me from paying to keep them alive...ie my tax dollars, do some research on how much is spent per year for prisoners.

Mizz

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

i am all for death penalty. And i think that people who are against it would change there mind if someting happened to a family member of theirs or a friend. Why the fuck should we stick them in jail, to fuckin waste tax dollars that could be going to giving school teachers raises or police new equipment.

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"VANDIT Brothers Alliance 2oo2"

Does the family of the murdered person really benifit?? I'm sure they hate the person who killed the person, but does it bring them back?
NO

And do you guys really think all the people locked up are physco and sadistic, and are all happy about the people theyve killed? If it's a hate crime than quite possibly, but if its someone who you got in a fight with at a bar, and shot him while piss drunk probably not.

Another note, if the death penalty keeps these "sick freaks" out of our live's and society, doesn't life in jail do the same thing?

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Well it saves me from paying to keep them alive...ie my tax dollars, do some research on how much is spent per year for prisoners.

More money total is spent on prisoners than on people killed, but thats because there are far more people in jail, than killed each year. The price per person is much less for someone serving a jail sentence. If someone is sentenced to death, there are litterally thousands of ways to appeal it. So he _will_ live another 4+ years, and take your money. And during that time, he'll be wasting your tax dollars on huge legal battles with state sponsored lawyers.

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Originally posted by Nadi Does the family of the murdered person really benifit?? I'm sure they hate the person who killed the person, but does it bring them back? NO

[/i][/b]

They are the ones that lost a loved one ... not you ... so who are you to say that they can't gain some satisfaction out of that murderer dying, even if it doesn't bring their loved one back? It's like ordering men into battle without knowing what war is really like.

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Originally posted by Nadi And do you guys really think all the people locked up are physco and sadistic, and are all happy about the people theyve killed? If it's a hate crime than quite possibly, but if its someone who you got in a fight with at a bar, and shot him while piss drunk probably not.

[/i][/b]

A drunk guy who shoots somebody at the bar won't get the death peanlty. That's second degree murder. Capital murder cases involve people who committ multiple murders in cold blood, those who fully plan out a murder knowing full well what they are doing is wrong, and those who committ murder in a particularly gruesome, cruel manner.

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Originally posted by Nadi Another note, if the death penalty keeps these "sick freaks" out of our live's and society, doesn't life in jail do the same thing?

[/i][/b]

Yes it keeps them out of society but does it punish them enough?

And for those of you that think we shouldn't apply the death penalty to murderers because they were "born that way," when was the last time you objected to a rabid dog being put to sleep? Or how about an animal that attacked and killed people? Has anybody ever suggested establishing a park for rapid, aggressive animals so they can live out their lives in homocidal peace? It's hypocritical to preach about "cherishing all life" when you don't make a fuss about those issues. Basically if someone is born with homicidal urges and has no regard for human life then THEY have no regard for their own life. Do them a favor and put them out of their misery much as you would with a rabid dog.